Changes to Wanderer's Palace: why SE, why?

I am wondering what was the motivation behind the changes to the structure and the mobs in WP... I dont mean the drops of Philo, Myth and Gil, thanks for these as they are much appreciated.

I see the reason why the devices require to kill the tonberries, to prevent speed running abuse, but the re-organisation of the mobs and the giant tonberries not despawning when they reach a boss room... why?

I've just ran the instance with guildies, both DPS are relic'd, and it was litterally impossible to outrun the giant tonberry: he would always catch up despite the mobs going down quicker than i have seen before in the instance (due to both newly acquired relics)

Result: the place is now very annoying, longer and more frustrating. I mean WP wasnt exactly fun before, but it was bearable if you knew what you were doing.

But the whole: heres a bump of Philo/Myth for the dungeon BUT BUT BUT you're going to have to eat rubbish for it is not called for really.

So yeah, why SE, why? (edit typo)

Dude you can hide in certain corners of the dungeon to let the tonberry pass, it is fine.

Because people where whining like hell about speed runners ruining their casual life

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Originally Posted by TheMoonflow

Because people where whining like hell about speed runners ruining their casual life

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Because since 1.0 Dzemael people complained that dungeons , where you can ignore all enemies, sucks.

True hardcores face the fight, don't run way from it.

I never had an issue with speed runs on the wanderers palace lol
Actually i never speed runned that dungeon before

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Originally Posted by Mazi

Dude you can hide in certain corners of the dungeon to let the tonberry pass, it is fine.

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I know you can but then what is the design purpose of having a big tonberry chasing, other than wasting your time forcing you to hide, if the chase is not legitimately beatable?

In this case you might as well not putting the big tonberry in the first place.

That's poor design that could have been fun, it's a shame.

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Originally Posted by Kenjinmaru

I know you can but then what is the design purpose of having a big tonberry chasing, other than wasting your time forcing you to hide, if the chase is not legitimately beatable?

In this case you might as well not putting the big tonberry in the first place.

That's poor design that could have been fun, it's a shame.

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It is just a minor mechanic to make parties keep an eye on their surroundings. Pull while the Stalker is on your tail and someones gonna die.

Anyone else getting sick of the term "Speed run"?

LFM for a slow run. Pst.

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Originally Posted by sasakusaku

Anyone else getting sick of the term "Speed run"?

LFM for a slow run. Pst.

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Doing the dungeon in walking mode? ^^

I absolutely love the Stalkers in Wanderer's Palace, they make the whole dungeon much more interesting than Amdapor Keep, as does picking up Lantern Oil for the doors. You actually have to do things and pay attention in Wanderer's Palace, Amdapor Keep is complete and utter trash in comparison.

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I've just ran the instance with guildies, both DPS are relic'd, and it was litterally impossible to outrun the giant tonberry: he would always catch up despite the mobs going down quicker than i have seen before in the instance (due to both newly acquired relics)

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Then you're honestly doing it wrong.

Pull the first set of Tonberries down the stairs without going up, the Stalker spawns when you go up the stairs, pulling them down gives you a head start.
Move up based on where the Stalker is, not whether or not you've killed all the mobs yet. They don't hit so hard that you can't pull two groups, though it should be more like one and a half.
Kill the Tonberries asap and open the door asap and run through to avoid the Stalker.

I tend to get hated, but since I run PLD ppl have to go at my pace, which is not a speed run. lol.

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Originally Posted by Kenjinmaru

I am wondering what was the motivation behind the changes to the structure and the mobs in WP... I dont mean the drops of Philo, .....
I've just ran the instance with guildies, both DPS are relic'd, and it was litterally impossible to outrun the giant tonberry: ...... going down quicker than i have seen before in the instance (due to both newly acquired relics)

Result: the place is now very annoying, longer and more frustrating. I mean WP wasnt exactly fun before, but it was bearable if you knew what you were doing.

But the whole: heres a bump of Philo/Myth for the dungeon BUT BUT BUT you're going to have to eat rubbish for it is not called for really.

So yeah, why SE, why? (edit typo)

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Did it fine this morning no relics, was faster clear as certain mobs got removed. We never speed run it so its the same with great loots!

I just hope that SE keeps catering to the people who hate "speed runs". Every time they do, dungeons take a little longer and they get a little harder. Eventually, they will get to the point where only the best geared people can beat them during the time limit. The casual players won't be able to finish the dungeons in time, but they will have gotten exactly what they asked for.

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Originally Posted by sasakusaku

Anyone else getting sick of the term "Speed run"?

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I agree; i never ran a speed run as a tank since i leveled 2 jobs to 50 before getting to endgame (healthy variety) and since i took my time, i started running 50 dungeons after the AK and co nerfs to speedrun.

My issue with the WP changes isnt that you cant speed run it anymore as i never did, its that its downright bloody annoying now, when it was ok before.

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Originally Posted by Reiterpallasch

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You mean we'll be doing dungeons the way they were designed instead of bypassing mechanics? How horrible!

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Originally Posted by Kenjinmaru

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It's annoying that you actually have to position yourself intelligently? They rarely even get in the way to slow anything down. I find it silly they don't even 1HKO.

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Originally Posted by Tiraelina

You mean we'll be doing dungeons the way they were designed instead of bypassing mechanics? How horrible!

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I think he meant that you'll be doing just that, and unable to finish the dungeon because you're doing it the "right" way.

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Originally Posted by Sotek

I absolutely love the Stalkers in Wanderer's Palace, they make the whole dungeon much more interesting than Amdapor Keep, as does picking up Lantern Oil for the doors. You actually have to do things and pay attention in Wanderer's Palace, Amdapor Keep is complete and utter trash in comparison.



Then you're honestly doing it wrong.

Pull the first set of Tonberries down the stairs without going up, the Stalker spawns when you go up the stairs, pulling them down gives you a head start.
Move up based on where the Stalker is, not whether or not you've killed all the mobs yet. They don't hit so hard that you can't pull two groups, though it should be more like one and a half.
Kill the Tonberries asap and open the door asap and run through to avoid the Stalker.

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Or pull and kill the two tonberries, then drag the skeletons back to the pudding boss room. That despawns the Stalker and gives you a clear, unhindered shot straight to those last two tonberries.

Stalkers still despawn as long as the entire party moves to a boss location.

Just done WP today to test it out, and man there is so many Trash Mob you have to kill and avoiding the giant tornberry does get pretty annoying waiting for him to slowly pass by. It literally taking way too long to be worth it since AK give a lot more now.

Way to go and trying to spread out the Myth and Philosophy drop so there is more Variety. People are still gonna spam AK because it is still more efficient. This patch haven't fix much of the issue.

People having trouble with the stalkers after the patch... yeah you're doing something seriously wrong. It is VERY possible to kill the necessary mobs to keep ahead of the stalkers at each section. I've run it twice this evening and not once did we have to hide from a stalker, we stayed ahead the whole way.

I think you should take a look at yourselves when looking at things to blame rather than blaming the patch for your troubles. Personally I find the changes great as WP actually has a bit of tension now, which is precisely what the stalkers were intended to create.

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Originally Posted by Zaiken

Just done WP today to test it out, and man there is so many Trash Mob you have to kill and avoiding the giant tornberry does get pretty annoying waiting for him to slowly pass by. It literally taking way too long to be worth it since AK give a lot more now.

Way to go and trying to spread out the Myth and Philosophy drop so there is more Variety. People are still gonna spam AK because it is still more efficient. This patch haven't fix much of the issue.

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Exactly that. Same impression i had at the end of the run.

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Originally Posted by Machazareel

Stalkers still despawn as long as the entire party moves to a boss location.

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Except that they dont. They follow you inside the boss room now.

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Originally Posted by Kenjinmaru

Except that they dont. They follow you inside the boss room now.

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Given that Stalkers are the only mobs in dungeons that will actually give up chasing you, I really don't see the issue here... Just run further into the boss room?

Honestly, most of my day in game today was doing Wanderer's Palace, and I didn't really experience any of these problems...

The stalkers give up SO easily. They give up even faster than the normal mobs on the world map do. There really should be no complaints about this. If you're having trouble, you're doing it wrong.

I ran it for the FIRST TIME this morning, and we were able to work around the stalkers. Sounds like someone's salty that they can't just tunnel vision through a dungeon.

Stalker #1: Pull mobs + Tonberry to the right corner and kill them. Stalker should give you no trouble.
Stalker #2: If it's in the way, pull the mobs to the stairs while one DPS activates switch. Let the tank take a Stalker hit.
Stalker #3 and #4: Kill tonberries in front of the gate first, then pull mobs to the gate while DPS activates switches.
Stalker #5(after 2nd boss): Kill first pack of mobs, then pull all mobs to the gate and kill everything.

If your group has Relic/DL or better, WP is a cakewalk. The mobs are extremely weak.

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Originally Posted by Kenjinmaru

Except that they dont. They follow you inside the boss room now.

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Yes. Yes they do. I did WP like 6 times last night, and my standard tactics for dealing with them still work fine. I'm assuming one of your party members didn't actually enter the boss area, or you somehow got bugged stalkers. They despawned for me everytime last night.

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Originally Posted by Nichigo

The stalkers give up SO easily. They give up even faster than the normal mobs on the world map do. There really should be no complaints about this. If you're having trouble, you're doing it wrong.
I ran it for the FIRST TIME this morning, and we were able to work around the stalkers. Sounds like someone's salty that they can't just tunnel vision through a dungeon.

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Sounds like someone isnt reading my post probably and jumping to conclusion to try and sound pro.
We might have been doing it wrong as we didnt want to hide and just try to outrun him. The healer did tend to stay behind so maybe that helped the frustration.

However, remind me again where i said that i was having trouble or that i wanted it to be tunnel visioned?

I'll remind you what i said: it was fine before and it's more annoying now, and i'm wondering why they felt the need to implement these changes other than the oil to prevent speedruns.

Annoying? It is so easy. Lol.

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Originally Posted by Kenjinmaru

I've just ran the instance with guildies, both DPS are relic'd, and it was litterally impossible to outrun the giant tonberry: he would always catch up despite the mobs going down quicker than i have seen before in the instance (due to both newly acquired relics)

Result: the place is now very annoying, longer and more frustrating. I mean WP wasnt exactly fun before, but it was bearable if you knew what you were doing.
So yeah, why SE, why? (edit typo)

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I don't see anything annoying about it, I nearly freaked out when I saw these huge tonberry(but in a good way). They creep towards like you and throat-stab you to death(classic FF-style). True horror! XD

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Originally Posted by PSxpert2011

I don't see anything annoying about it, I nearly freaked out when I saw these huge tonberry(but in a good way). They creep towards like you and throat-stab you to death(classic FF-style). True horror! XD

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Stab stab!

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Originally Posted by LordSideKicks

Annoying? It is so easy. Lol.

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Ifrit is easy, super easy. yet if you are the paladin interrupting it's annoying as hell to be stuck to the role of stun bot.

Easy =/= annoying.

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Originally Posted by Kenjinmaru

Ifrit is easy, super easy. yet if you are the paladin interrupting it's annoying as hell to be stuck to the role of stun bot.

Easy =/= annoying.

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You dont know the feeling of being a Warrior.... at least you are wanted......

never had a problem out killing the speed the stalker walks, never had stalker enter boss room, seems like user error

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Originally Posted by Emilyee

never had a problem out killing the speed the stalker walks, never had stalker enter boss room, seems like user error

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I never used to before 2.05 either. I'll try again tonight but yesterday's run was a far cry from pre-patch in annoying little details that are not fun.

Once more, i like that they added oils, and that stalkers are chasing. What i dislike is that unless something was majorly bugged, the stalker was always catching up on 2 relic dps worth of damage, and that they wouldnt despawn when entering the boss room any more.

Nothing life threatening like some people are misreading in my posts. Just more annoying than before when just adding the oil would have been enough.

Ran WP several times with friends yesterday, no issue whatsoever, managed to clear packs way ahead of the stalker catching up, only time we had any issue was the first run where we forgot to pick up an oil and had to backtrack into a stalker to grab it, and even then we could just sprint to outrun the stalker.

Maybe your "relic DPS" needs to have a good look at their skill rotatation cause there definatley isnt any reason the stalker should catch up to a reasonable geared group, heck I even did a run on my sub-par BRD equiped with Ifrits bow and SB gear, we still broke no sweat on trash nor bosses.

I did WP last night and we had no trouble outrunning the stalker even with a first timer in the group. The stalker also correctly despawned when we entered the boss room so not sure why thats happening to you. If anything they seemed liked they nerfed the 2nd boss, he went down much faster than i have ever seen.

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Originally Posted by Kenjinmaru

Just more annoying than before when just adding the oil would have been enough.

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Adding the Oil is all they did (well, they moved some mobs around and gave some Tonberries a patrol as well...), whatever issues you're having was either a bug or something... This thread has been 4 pages of people saying they've had no such problem with the Stalkers.

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Originally Posted by Zaiken

Just done WP today to test it out, and man there is so many Trash Mob you have to kill and avoiding the giant tornberry does get pretty annoying waiting for him to slowly pass by. It literally taking way too long to be worth it since AK give a lot more now.

Way to go and trying to spread out the Myth and Philosophy drop so there is more Variety. People are still gonna spam AK because it is still more efficient. This patch haven't fix much of the issue.

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This patch wasnt to get people out of AK, or they wouldnt have added more DF servers for it.. the point of this was to make AK and WP more valuable to higher geared people than CM and prae as to annoy first timers less. instead of only 2 places to get 100 tomes, now we have 4

Unless everyone is in sync speed runs = slow runs. Which in amphor keep a speed run shaves off maybe 5 min if and that's a big if it doesn't fail. If it fails the instances takes a lot longer.

I did an AK yesterday and me and another group were trying to get the dungeon before maint started. The speed run grp got into ak before my grp did. We got in maybe a couple min laters. Did it the normal way and guess what we completed ak b4 maitenance started while the speed run grp didn't get to complete it.

Pretty much what everyone said, WP is not a difficult dungeon or even annoying. I've run this dungeon almost exclusively DF, with parties ranging from all new to all experienced, from whites to Garuda and Relics, and whether or not the Stalker catches us is regardless of gear. It's all about how well the group can focus on a target and plaster as much damage as possible on them, as fast as possible. Knowing where to pull the mobs is also very helpful, as it puts more distance between you and the Stalker. And honestly, the dungeon hasn't been any longer for me because I'll usually go and pick up the dropped oil while someone's burning down the last mob, then activate the switches.

I do find it a little funny that the dungeon that, by all accounts, is designed for speed-running was/is(?) never speed-ran. The whole point is to get through this dungeon as quickly as possibly so you don't get stabby-stabbed by a giant green fish-monk's giant chef's knife!

WP is fine, did it with non-relic DPS, hell i'm still using my GC ilvl55 weapon. Some mob packs were removed, but the tonberry hiding places still work fine. It was a quick, smooth run, probably around 35-40 minutes. 3/4 of us were in vent, just in AWE of how easy they made that place. removing a pack or two makes it much easier to stay ahead or right behind the tonberry.
I don't know if I've just ran it too much (its one of my favorite 50 dungeons!) or it was minorly adjusted. I found it a much simpler run then before. It was easy to see how to use the oil, I think they did a good job requiring mobs to be killed instead of just adding hallways full of em to slow down "speed runs".
Learn to hide, makes it easy sauce. :) I would much rather run this than CM, just saying