Heya, fresh lv50 and I was wondering, how important is it to get Mercy Strike (MRD 26 iirc) and most importantly, Stoneskin from CNJ 34?
Right now I have 8 in MRD and 15 in CNJ, and given my farming needs in philosophers and stuff like that I need to prioritize stuff. So for the current content I'll be farming (mostly wanderers for now for 2-3 more DL pieces I guess), is stoneskin really needed and should it be a top priority?
New(b) PLD
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10-16-2013, 03:46 AMHarbyNew(b) PLD
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10-16-2013, 04:04 AMSpookyGhost
You don't need either of them if you're just farming Wanderer's. Or AK really. They're helpful (Mercy adds to DPS, Stoneskin gives healers even more breathing room if there's a part in a fight where you can actually cast it) but they're not exactly something that should be prioritized for farming. Gear is more important, so if you're still farming phil then keep doing that with what you've got. Eventually you may want to get Mercy Stroke at least as you progress and if you haven't done Titan then Stoneskin is helpful for that fight, but for now you can just chill and keep farming tomes.
Edit: Though Stoneskin is more useful in fights where you can cast it (Titan HM~), Mercy Stroke is something that is universally useful whereas SS is just a useful quality of life tool to have in certain instances. There's no fight where either will really change the course of events, but SS can slightly help if your healers aren't on the ball for Titan. So basically, get them eventually but gear is more important. -
10-16-2013, 04:37 AMHenlhaw
Got Stoneskin on my pally (only 41) and I find it pretty useless. I mean, I'm tank, I'm here to be hit, and even at 41, SS doesn't last more than 1 hit, and healers are already ready to heal me anyway.
For me, the purpose of Stoneskin is to be on DPS/Heal, so it'll last just long enough for heals to react and be ready to heal the person targeted.
Compared to the ratio mana/time to cast, I prefer from afar all the instant cast that we can take, we have enough of them to have always one ready in case things are going bad.
Maybe I'm wrong, I'm not an expert in Pally, and I never tanked in a 50 dungeon. -
10-16-2013, 04:44 AMEhayte
I'd love to hear some exp'ed heavy-weights of the PLD weigh in, as I continue to be lazy and hell and not get my CNJ to level 34 (I HATE 20-26 FATEs lol).
However, tanking in AK/HM Primals/Etc, I often find myself saying...OK...I could pop Bulwark, but...I'm not sure its going to be 100% effective here, etc. Stoneskin is a great 100% reliable (if you get it off) free 10% of your hit-points. I am itching to get it and maximize its effectiveness. Being a PLD is pretty easy so looking for the best way to optimize your mitigation, enmity, and efficiency is always good! -
10-16-2013, 05:13 AMRhazeCainOh hell no. If you could pop Bulwark and choose not to, then Stoneskin is NOT what you want. 3.0 sec cast time. Can't use other skills. Can't move. Can be interrupted. Blocks way less damage over the duration than Bulwark.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ehayte
No, the time for Stoneskin (if there is any) is when Bulwark and other off-GCD are unavailable or you want more on top of them. -
10-16-2013, 05:38 AMEhayteSorry, I need to stop mentioning specific skills when I am trying to give a general example. I just meant there are times when I have 5-6 seconds where starting another RoH combo is unnecessary, and I don't want to use any of my CDs because I don't particularly need them. I feel like that would be a good point to pop a Stoneskin for some extra cushion. 10% of my HP is 550 - pretty nice little bonus with very little side effects.Quote:
Originally Posted by RhazeCain
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10-16-2013, 10:00 AMIcepick823
Mercy Stroke: Usually only effective when solo. In a dungeon party setting, you really need to time is just right and be lucky to get the kill shot since it'll do pitiful damage. In either case it doesn't matter as OOC regen is so high,you can go from almost dead to 100% in a few seconds, esp with a healer.
Stoneskin: Really only useful when a boss does sometime that makes them invincible/untargetable. Even with 5000+ hp, when you're getting hit for 900+, it won't even last a hit. Still, it's ~500 less damage taken, and there really isn't much we need MP for anyway.
They're nice tools to have, and if you like war/whm, then you'll have them anyway, but if you absolutely hate them, don't bother. No sense bashing your head in for something you'll use .5% of the time. -
10-16-2013, 01:37 PMHenlhaw
I was thinking, it's probably more interesting if stoneskin was used on you by one of the DPS from time to time, instead of being cast b yourself or the heal.
The summoner can easily spare a 3 seconds cast when all his dots are up. -
10-16-2013, 01:46 PMSephirah
I'm currently in turn 4 of Coils as a PLD and haven't needed either Mercy Stroke or Stoneskin for ANYTHING.
Stoneskin is the only one that would be remotely helpful, but it's situational, and marginal at best. If you casting stoneskin on yourself is the difference between a wipe and victory, then you probably need a better healer. -
10-16-2013, 02:59 PMVanFrey
I can think of one instance where I would really want Stoneskin atm, and that's during the Titan fight. During that fight, and some others, it's possible that I'll run out of TP while maintaining Aggro, I usually try to mitigate my TP useage by using MP abilities such as Cure/Flash. there are also however some moments of specific fights where i have the time and MP to casts Stone Skin but not do anything else. During Titan, using Stoneskin during/before Geocrush can lighten the load of my healers. There is also a point in the fight where Titan does 3 moves in succession that are exceedingly dangerous to me. He'll start with Bombs, then after he uses landslide on the party and the bombs explode, he'll hit me with Rock Breaker, and then Mountain Buster. If I had Stoneskin, and I plan to. I could further mitigate that damage by casting it during the time when the bombs have fallen.
That situation right there is enough, for me, to put Stoneskin on my hotbar. -
10-16-2013, 04:46 PMThalissThe problem is which DPS job can use CNJ cross class skills? SMN can't use it :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Henlhaw
Maybe in future patches new jobs will allow it
I am pretty sure that SMN don't have access to stoneskin ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper
http://xivdb.com/?skill/129/Stoneskin
GLA PGL MRD LNC ARC CNJ THM ACN PLD WHM SCH -
10-16-2013, 05:50 PMCasper
All you saying that stoneskin is not needed are just nuts and/or lazy. If you have it and don't use it, you are plain lazy.
Saying "if you need it your healers need to be better" is just insane. So what ? Is it ok if i don't use Hallowed ground either ? I mean it is not as if anything was made so that it is mandatory, if my healers don't suck i won't need it, right ? Why stop there ?
The truth is, a lot of bosses in endgame use abilities on party members, and to do so turn away from the tank, giving him a nice window to cast stoneskin. This will in turn give some breathing room to your healers, which is never a bad thing. Hate shouldn't be a problem, so the lost GCD hate wise is no issue. Mp are only used for flash (single target for the blind, so defensively too) and for stoneskin, and you can regen it through riot blade if you have somewhat of a decent lead anyway, so here again, it is free.
Basically stoneskin is a free 550-600 hp everytime the boss turn to cast stuff on other players. If you say that is not usefull, i don't know what to tell to you. I would love a warrior that would give me a "yeah i don't use inner beast, like, ever, cause it is not needed if my healers are good (i.e. overgeared)".
As for titan HM, the guy will use landslide, during which you have all the time you need to cast stoneskin, then he will turn to you and send you a nice 6k total of damage (AA RB AA MB) in a 2 second span time. Stoneskin is just nuts to help deal with it. Yeah, sure, the naysayer will say it is not needed, and of course with their team full of relic+1 where everyone know the fight in and out it is not remotely needed. But going with a "normal" team (i mean one that can beat it, but struggle a bit), you will be SO GLAD to have it.
Also, regarding the "summoner can use it" -- not necessarily: in titan for example, you get breathing room before MB, smn do not (avoid landslide, kill gaol, avoid bombs). Moreover, their MP is a valued ressource -- yours is just sitting idly there. -
10-16-2013, 07:37 PMSephirahI'm not disputing it's lazy to not get it, but the question he was asking was if you NEED it. And you DON'T. And I'm not disputing it's better to have it than not, but it isn't something that separates a good/bad tank.Quote:
Originally Posted by Casper
Not having stoneskin will not prevent him from being able to progress through end-game content. I'm on turn 4 in coils and not once has there been a situation where "I" needed to cast stoneskin. My WHM casts it all the time already. -
10-16-2013, 08:49 PMMaelwysRelatively new 50 GLD myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Harby
I've been glad of Stoneskin in duty-finder dungeons so far, but I can see it having little/no use at higher levels of endgame or if your healer is always on the ball.
When I'm in a Duty Finder group with a SCH instead of a WHM (seems to happen quite a lot) then I'll throw Stoneskin up on everyone before a boss fight, and Stoneskin myself immediately after each group of mobs.
My MP is only really used for Stoneskin and Flash anyway... it really doesn't cost me much and it helps me withstand an Alpha Strike from multiple enemies - 10% extra HP buffer means I can wait a bit longer before using any cooldowns, or even skip them completely on trash mobs. On Bosses it's a bit more situational. I'll only use it if the healer's hard-pressed or I've got plenty of hate lead + time to cast and I know a big hit is about to happen.
When soloing, it's brilliant. Tanked many a FATE boss whilst levelling up using just Stoneskin and my chocobo.
As others may have mentioned, Mercy Strike helps DPS a tiny little bit since it's off the Global Cooldown. But the HP it grants can't be relied upon as you're almost never guaranteed the killing hit.
I tend to keep Foresight, Bloodbath, Stoneskin and Cure on my Cross-Class bar, and swap in Protect for soloing and Mercy Stoke for groups.
I tried Fracture, but didn't find any real need for it. Could easily swap something else in for Cure if needed though - it's very rarely used in groups unless the Healer DCs, and is very underpowered on a PLD even with Convalescence up. -
10-16-2013, 09:26 PMCasperThing, is, you don't have to complete the level 50 quest for pld to get hallowed ground either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephirah
The problem is not to create a black/white distinction between good and bad tank. There are actually 50 shades of grey ! (sorry, couldn't help it :p ).
No, seriously. It is not binary. You don't need stoneskin to perform, but it will make you a better tank by a non-negligible amount. Mercy stroke on the other hand is utterly useless and have a much much much smaller impact.
Also, i don't think your whm will cast stoneskin on you once the fight has started, or at least not on a regular basis. -
10-17-2013, 05:05 AMThemis
This is my own personal experience with it, but I currently make use of:
Stoneskin - It's 10% of your max HP and makes for a decent buffer, if you're healers can't get it on for you (or prior to big attacks). I also make use of it in cases where I am off-tanking (Ifrit stun duty, for example) to provide the stoneskin buffer to other DDs before major damage, or just for the sake of it sometimes. Once you have a lead on enmity, you can help out the healers by taking care of some of your own damage mitigation, especially whilst a mob is using a special attack with a cast time.
Fracture - I use this following Circle of Scorn. It's a little extra damage and damage is enmity on top of the normal combo. I start to use it once I have a decent start on enmity.
Foresight - +20% defense increase. It might not be huge, but it's better than nothing.
Bloodbath - It's slightly useful and it's an off-GCD buff so why not. It works better with Sword Oath up, seeing as the HP absorb procs on both hits of the auto attack and also because your damage isn't being reduced (sometimes you can use Sword Oath instead of Shield Oath, even when tanking - mostly when you are fighting single target mobs, or when clumps can be slept).
Then I'll swap in and out between: Raise (for dungeons, just in case), Mercy Stroke (it's a small amount of extra damage) and Protect (for those solo moments).