Having played through the main quest recently, there is a character that seems out of place to me - Minfilia. I guess she is important in 1.0 or something? I am not legacy so I don't know.
I mean, she doesn't seem to do much in the story. So she is the leader of Scions? I don't see why. All she does is talk and give out missions. She have a knife but never used it, even when in mortal danger. (Where did the one the main character melded for her go anyway?)
It seems the biggest part she's in is getting kidnapped by the Empire - even then it's just because the main character was not there to be captured.
Look at everyone else in Scions.
Louisoix was bad ass as seen in "End of an Era" trailer. His grandchildren seems to talk a lot but at least one helped reform the Scions and another have something to do with Bahamut(not sure since I'm not there yet)?
Papalymo is THM with monocle, he get a pass; Yda can probably tank Livia as seen in CM; She and Y'Shtola help recovered the Ironworks guys, whom did their thing with Maggie; their boss Cid does he airship thing and is generally awesome; Thancred is the weakest final boss ever but he is badass with he knives thing. Urianger's words may need a translator to understand, but I heard he willingly act as bait to draw out the Empire's plans in 1.0. Even Tataru is a savvy HR person who link you up with the Grand Companies.
In comparsion to all of them Minfilia just doesn't compare; I guess the "High Priestess" is some kind of of middle manager, answering to Hydaelyn or something? But what power she got seems to be just a phone number compared to the main characters' Skype/other IM where you got sight, sound, vision and the whole works. Maybe she's in that position because she got connections (her gatherfather?), or just a power grab when her organization merged with others after the Calamity?
The above may seems a long rant but I am really unclear on the role Minfilia in ARR, I hope one of the loremongers here can tell us how she is badass or something.
Thanks in advance!
So what does Minfilia do anyway? [Main Quest Spoilers]
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10-15-2013, 11:57 PMRadishlawSo what does Minfilia do anyway? [Main Quest Spoilers]
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10-16-2013, 12:03 AMConradusBeing a leader doesn't mean you have to be personally bad-ass. Being a good leader means you can effectively direct others. "Talk and give out missions", as you put it. How many Germans did Eisenhower personally kill?Quote:
Originally Posted by Radishlaw
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10-16-2013, 12:04 AMSapphidia
I thought the whole point of Minfilia was that she was one of the only other people with the Echo? Initially I thought all the Scions had it, but I'm not so sure now. I'm pretty sure Minfilia has it though, and thus her general prescience is part of the reason she's at the top of their food chain, so to speak.
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10-16-2013, 01:07 AMToranja
She does play in part in convincing Eorzea to fight instead of surrendering to Ultima's power. She's good with words.
And she does seem to have an Echo on par with the main character. Not all Echos are equal. -
10-16-2013, 02:05 AMEnkidoh
Minfilia's role makes more sense if you were a 1.0 player - she was originally the leader of a secret organization called the 'Path of the Twelve', a research guild of Echo users who were not only trying to study it but also to use it for the betterment of Eorzea, while providing a place of sanctuary for those who possessed the power. Echo users who joined the Path were called 'Walkers' (hence the name 'the Path of the Twelve - Minfilia believed the Echo was granted by the Twelve and hence they were directed by divine providence to use the Echo's power for the benefit of everyone in Eorzea).
Remnants of former ties to the Path are the fact the Scions' HQ is called the 'Waking Sands' (which was the Path's original headquarters, albeit located in Ul'dah - the 'Waking' part refers to how Echo users were stated as being 'woken' to their abilities), the fact Minfilia's position is called 'antecedent' (in 1.0 she said she was stated as being acting antecedent, hence it was was presumably a temporary role), and assisting the city states in matters that were outside the capabilities of 'regular' agencies - ala, sending the player on convoluted quests, usually involving matters with the beastmen and the Primals, due to the player's Echo-given ability to speak the beastmen languages which are otherwise unintelligible. Even the doorgirl, Tataru, served in the same role with the Path in 1.0, greeting the player at the front door to the Waking Sands in it's original location in Ul'dah (it was located where the Hall of Flames is now located).
In ARR though, if you spoke to Y'shtola just after joining the Scions, she mentions that after the Calamity, she and the Archons searched out Minfilia and others with the Echo for assistance, and hence Minfilia agreed to amalgamate the Path with the Archons' own secret group of Sharlyan scholars the Circle of Knowing, thus forming the new organization, the Scions of the Seventh Dawn.
Presumably because the Archons lost their leader (Louisoix) during the Calamity, it must have been decided it was easier to have Minfilia retain her position of leadership in the new organization, this time with her title upgraded from just 'acting antecedent' to 'antecedent'.
As for the scope of Minfilia's power, in 1.0 she stated clearly and shown all too well, that her powers with the Echo were nowhere as potent as the player's (she can only view past events from a person's memories, and not understand unknown languages, unlike the player who has both). This basically showed the scope of the Echo is rather inconstant in that some people have more potency in it than others, Minfilia seeming to have gotten the short straw in that regard.
That's right - I completely forgot about that, but then, that point was only shown if you played through the original Ul'dah storyline - it was never shown if you started in Gridania or Limsa Lominsa. But it's still an important point to note. Thanks for reminding me of that Rannie. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rannie
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10-16-2013, 02:15 AMSebastien
Unfortunately, having the power of the Echo did not grant her the ability to dress or color-coordinate properly.
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10-16-2013, 02:16 AMRannie
Not to mention she was one of the focal points for 1.0's story line for Ul'dah. She was once called Ascilia and her Father Warburton was killed about 15 years ago. Right around the time Thancred first showed up in the city. Her father ended up getting killed saving her from a rampaging gobbue a thaumaturge lost control of due to the leader Nef something if memory is correct he was a leader or worked with the alchemist guild. Also she was one of the first to receive the echo during the TRUE meteor shower, the one we see aways when Hydaelyn speaks to us.
Btw her father was pretty much a spy for Ul'dah and reporting about the Garleans invasion of Ala Mhigo when he was killed that day.
Edit: you're very welcome. I figured it would be good to add. I did play the U'ldah story line in 1.0 it gave me a burning hatred for Thancred taking all the credit but he's better now -
10-16-2013, 04:58 AMNaria
To be honest I'm a bit surprised by the leadership role Minfillia has in ARR. I recall her being pretty ineffective as a leader in 1.0, and only mildly improved in ARR. The Circle was a much better organized and more competent group then the Path, though to our knowledge much smaller. I presumed it has something to do with Minfillia having access to better resources than the remnants of the Circle, or the Circle's grief over Louisoix--not to mention his long shadow. Not that Minfillia seems to really be calling a lot of the shots in the Scions-she may be giving us orders but Alphinaud seems to be the one running the show by the end of the main questline.
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10-16-2013, 10:35 AMNialle
They really need to flesh out these people in ARR -- otherwise all us folks who weren't in 1.0 are out of luck when it comes to knowing who they are and why they're even important. :/
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10-16-2013, 11:20 AMSephirah
Echo + Lady Bits = Free Pass.
(seriously though, she is a good leader, regardless of how "bad-ass" she is) -
10-16-2013, 09:50 PMRadishlaw
Thanks for everybody's replies so far, and I have to apologize for making use of words like "bad-ass" to judge Minfilia (it's kind of a bait), but now with all the helpful answers I can see that she really is supposed to be in a leadership position with help of her Echo abilities. It seems a missed opportunity not to let her interact with the main character a bit more, similar to what we got with the Cid storyline. Or even let her be the one who contacted you at the start instead of Hydaelyn?
Oh well, I guess character lore is not the main focus for ARR for now anyway. -
10-17-2013, 12:17 AMLstkawsEye Candy!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Radishlaw
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10-17-2013, 10:09 PMCatapult
I'm going to put it really bluntly.
She is senior management. -
10-19-2013, 01:44 PMErikMynhier
Let's be honest here, Minfilia, and to a point, Thancred, are just princesses to be saved. They either do nothing or show up after you're done killing big bads saying s**t like, "Oh I tried to get there in time." or "If I had known I never would have sent you." Its total BS. I mean seriously?
SPOILER
She's doing the whole "tear in the eye, oh you, [wipes it away and looks brave]" moment as the "great hero" flies out of the fiery pipe at the end of the MS. "WELCOME HOME!"
Really? Her point is to drag heroes interested in pretty pink chicks by the noes to do suicide runs, not because you're some great hero, but because she couldn't find anyone else stupid enough.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-4...3+23_12_33.png
"Oh Erik? Would you go hit Titan?" *twirls bangs* "You are such a big strong hero and he killed all the other retaaaaa..... heroes. Kay, thanks." -
10-21-2013, 06:19 PMDuelleSee, this makes me feel like ether I wasn't really paying attention or the Echo's role in 1.0 was so disjointed from the story that it just gave the wrong impression of events. I thought the mess with Warburton was playing out in the present and I was seeing bits and pieces of what was happening while I was doing a trillion leves to level in between story missions (like how Thancred and I enter the city for the first time as per the cutscene and after I grind out a couple of levels I hear from Momodi that he had been exiled from Ul'dah -- which through the Echo is implied happened after his encounter with Niellefresne and the other heirs).Quote:
Originally Posted by Rannie
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10-23-2013, 11:52 AMEnkidoh
Yeah, how the starting storyline in 1.0 was handled it was not obvious at that stage - but in hindsight there's a certain The Sixth Sense feeling to it, where at first things seemed perfectly normal, but looking back you notice contradictions and little things that didn't quite seem right - showing that the player wasn't actually participating in the events in their starting city - those events had already happened, and the player was just viewing them through the Echo.
I can't remember in what thread it was, but Ferne basically came out and confirmed on the old Lodestone forum that this is indeed true - the starting nations storylines in 1.0 was mostly the player just viewing other peoples' memories through the Echo, as well as confirming Ascilia - Minfilia as the same person. -
10-25-2013, 04:29 AMNoloeTazier
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...dlander/page71
It actually took us like 50 pages in to come to the realization that the 1.0 storylines, up until the Path of the Twelve, were all an Echo.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...l=1#post910450
And there's my post to figuring it out. -
10-25-2013, 01:33 PMradhaz
1.0 for me was just doing the story line, I didn't question it much in game. Only when I landed on the lore forum did I understand what was going on.
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Originally Posted by NoloeTazier
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10-25-2013, 10:12 PMKittenJitsuomg grammar.Quote:
Originally Posted by Radishlaw
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10-25-2013, 11:17 PMKittenJitsuI would like to see you try to organize, motivate, and lead a group of people against beings intent on killing everyone. Even though she doesn't play the leading role, she is the mastermind behind the play. Do people feel like she needs to prove herself to be the leader? I think she does enough as a leader by leading us in the right direction to stop the madness. She understands that she cant do everything herself and realizes there are stronger adventures (us) who can handle the dirtier work. I would much rather be doing the dirty work than sitting behind a desk planning our next move. Not all leaders need to be flashy deadly killers... you know.Quote:
Originally Posted by ErikMynhier
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11-04-2020, 03:08 AMMilitaryVet123She does a lot. Quite a fair deal of the criticisms levied against her are misogyny.Quote:
Originally Posted by Radishlaw
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12-01-2020, 12:32 PMGobio
It is absolutely the writers fault.
It doesn't matter how many high level negotiation / deals she made in the background.
She is supposed to be an important character, at ARR should be the most important scion. Writers should have written plots / quest / arc about her. It is not about writing "women" either because they put obviously a lot more effort on writing nanamo then minifilia.
In stormblood, it is pretty much a whole arc about that monk lady. So they can write women, just not minfilia. -
12-01-2020, 02:10 PMCilia
Minfilia's role within the Scions is (or was) to be their manager and diplomat (until Alphinaud busted onto the scene). 1.X players will feel more connected to her because she factored into that storyline more heavily.
The problems with her in 2.X are:
1. Mostly sits behind her desk at the Waking Sands / Rising Stones. Her job is not glamorous by nature, but when you have as much screen time as the people who actually get shit done (if not more) despite being a desk jockey it's grating. Cf. Tataru: less screen time, actually tries to overcome her weaknesses (and, by Stormblood, is a competent if not exceptional Arcanist). Also cf. Aymeric: mostly a desk jockey, but willing and able to throw down when the situation calls for it.
2. Constantly calling you back to the Waking Sands in the 2.0 arc. Sometimes it feels she recalls you every half a dozen quests, and prior to the revamp giving Vesper Bay "Aetheryte" Tickets (there is still no aetheryte in Vesper Bay) you had to go to Horizon and hoof it the rest of the way or take the boat from Limsa. This is immensely annoying and really breaks up the flow of the story (granted 2.0 doesn't flow all that well; it's late and I need to hit the hay but to put it simply it's just a bunch of monster of the week episodes until you hit 45ish and then the Empire steps up to the plate for the climax).
Note the Wind-up Minfilia minion pokes fun at both of these grating tendencies.
So basically she's an annoying desk jockey who gets as much screentime (if not more) than the characters who actually get things done. Not a very endearing character, especially to 2.0 newbies who do not see her tragic backstory in so much detail. -
12-01-2020, 05:03 PMRiastrad
Thancred and Minfilia were the introduction characters to every player who chose Ul'dah as their starting city (back when you could separate that choice from the first class).
As such, they hold a special place in the game. Minfilia's story in game from 1.0 to 5.0 is difficult for a number of reasons for those who witnessed it. I mean she watched her father die for a failed power grab. Attempted to lead echo users for the betterment of the realm and having that fall through due to outside influences attempting to use them for personal reasons. Merges her remaining path members with the Circle of knowing which leads to the path members getting killed. Finally sees some success in becoming a political force for good just to lose it all in another power grab by the monetarists. Loses her humanity to a (not so benevolent) god. And is then happily traded away in an attempt to stop a world not her own from being consumed by light. We then find out a hundred years have passed and that she was literally being murdered again and again because she was in no way prepared to fight gods we had trouble with (and we do it just barely) and is betrayed by the people she was trying to save and is locked away like a pet to a literal monster. Just for her to be completely consumed so a child has a chance to take her destiny into her own hands.
It's ten years of failure and heartbreak for a character that should have been, could have been, written better. They just didn't try and i'm still salty and I will always be salty.
So yeah, I'm not going anywhere. I promise you Minfilia. -
12-01-2020, 05:38 PMRosenstrauch
Wow, what an old thread. Anyways, what does Minfilia do?
She suffers, dies, and is reborn to suffer and die some more. That's been the gist of it since Heavensward. I guess that's over with now, though.
On the one hand, I haven't completely lost hope that they'll bring her back again. Though since 5.4 is just on the horizon now, and with it will likely come the end of Ryne's story, there's not much room left to reasonably work that in. On the other hand, given how dissatisfied I've been with the way she's been handled, I can't say with confidence that I'd expect good things to come from her return anyways.
At least Ryne is a great character. Shame 5.4 might actually be the last time we see her. -
12-02-2020, 04:44 PMKeseyI guess the possibility exists that if we get to speak with Hydaelyn again, she could present herself as Minfilia. But that won't really be Minfilia either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch
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12-04-2020, 10:39 AMGobio
Sorry to post again.
Yesterday as I ran through shadowbringers... and I hear the word "The Minfilias"...
I am really speechless man, that is so... like... disrespectful... holy shit... -
12-04-2020, 02:06 PMIscahShe's been reincarnated multiple times and has been called Minfilia each time. It's become like a recurring position, essentially, rather than a single person's identity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gobio
I don't see the issue with collectively referring to all those incarnations as "the Minfilias" - particularly when, as far as I recall, it was the current Minfilia talking about her circumstances compared to "the Minfilias before her", like someone in a position might talk about past holders of the same title. -
12-04-2020, 03:39 PMRosenstrauch
Yeah, the whole "the Oracles are all named/titled after the woman they get their power from" isn't really a problem. At least, not out-of-universe. In-universe, it's a pretty big can of worms that doesn't really get touched outside of Ryne's personal drama, mostly because the Oracle of Light stops mattering to the plot outside of Ryne's personal drama. But that's another matter entirely.
Really, if you want an innocuous detail that's kind of disrespectful, look at the Oracle of Light triple triad card. It's Minfilia, of course. But the card has no tribe, even though "Scion" is available as one. She is literally one of the founding members of the Scions of the Seventh Dawn. Well, maybe she left, right? Giving your life to serve as a primal's puppet, then again to save another world, and finally your very existence to let your successor have your power is definitely the same thing as quitting.
Lyse left too, quite vocally, with her fellow Scions accepting this and wishing her well. She's not a Scion anymore. And when we look at her triple triad card... it's a Scion card. Lyse is still considered a Scion, even though she voluntarily left the organization. Which is nice. Minfilia, or "the Oracle of Light" is not, even though she never actually quit. I'm not so deep in the rabbit hole as to suggest that they'd spoil a potential plot twist with a triple triad card—and such a twist would be rather absurd to begin with. But it does leave me a little miffed. -
12-04-2020, 03:57 PMIscahI don't see that as a big deal either. In her form at that point as the Oracle of Light, she is undeniably no longer part of the organised team of people known collectively as the Scions, even if she still has deep ties to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch
Lyse on the other hand doesn't quit the Scions until after she has gone through all the events of Stormblood, and - I'm not sure which outfit she's wearing on the card, but even her more recent red dress was worn while she was still officially a member of the Scions. She hasn't changed fundamentally in some way to say the card portrays her in a "post-Scion form" that shouldn't receive that designation.
If Lyse had quit the Scions to join the Resistance in the first place, or if she gets some kind of 6.0 development and a new outfit and that version of her design gets a card, then that card maybe shouldn't get marked as a Scion card. -
12-04-2020, 04:47 PMRosenstrauchI would say that her promise to return—made in her departure during Heavensward—says otherwise. Imagine if she'd made good on that promise. Where would she go, and what would she do? The answer should be fairly obvious: She'd try to get back to the life she was living before the call to sacrifice was made.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iscah
There's also the Louisoix card, Louisoix having died before the Scions of the Seventh Dawn were even formed. Even the part where's he turns out to be not quite dead—being the primal Phoenix and all—he never actually joins the Scions, but is considered an honorary member. So naturally, his triple triad card is a Scion card. If a matter of paperwork, so to speak, is enough to disqualify the Oracle of Light, why not Louisoix as well?
I'm not suggesting that the Lyse and Louisoix cards should retroactively have their "Scion" tribe removed. Rather, I'm suggesting the Oracle of Light should have it added. I'd say even say the same for Ryne, should a Ryne card be added at some point. Even if she's not "legally" a member, she's one in spirit, just like Lyse.
And I'm not suggesting this is some big issue, either. Like I said, it's an innocuous detail. It's a very small thing with little, if any, meaning. Unless it turns out the absurd plot twist is actually the truth, which, well...
The Oracle of Light not being Minfilia would certainly explain it. But like I said before: That's absurd, and I don't think they'd spoil it through a triple triad card. -
12-04-2020, 05:05 PMIscahIn that case she would rejoin the Scions but she wasn't working with them in the meanwhile.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosenstrauch
Sure, if you added the designation to the card, there is also a logic to support that choice. But that doesn't mean it's automatically disrespectful to not use the label on the card where she has become something other than Minfilia of the Scions. -
12-07-2020, 02:59 PMGobio
Just finished shadowbringers.
would like to correct my earier post that "the minfilias" wasn't really creepy as I initially thought. I ran with the MSQ all the way, so when I heard "the minfilias" I immediately think they would turn that girl into "tsuya - just a little girl - so beautiful" kind of full on creepiness.
But no it is actually handled with a degree of respect, so I am happy that I was wrong lol