How difficult is it to run dungeons as classes, not jobs?

This is a bit of an odd question, but I'm curious about the feasibility of running through dungeons (mid-game and late-game, obviously) as a class rather than a job. I'm not talking about Coil or anything, mind you, or really any of the level 50 dungeons, but from Brayflox to Dzemael Darkhold or Aurum Vale. It just feels like a bit of a waste to simply level a class to 30, then ditch it and all of the utility you can get from cross-class skills for a job that, while more powerful, loses some of that utility.

So, I guess I'm just wondering if anyone has tried it and how well it has or hasn't worked. I, myself, tried running through Brayflox at 32 as a Gladiator and found Aiatar much more difficult than when I ran it as a Warrior at a similar level. Perhaps it was that the healer wasn't quite up to snuff for the fight, or maybe it's just that a class isn't prepared for a fight like that?

It was because your stats were lower. Jobs get a massive stat boost from the Soul Crystal. You were effectively under-leveled by going as a GLA instead of PLD.

The cross class skills are not worth the cost of losing the stat boosts for dungeon runs. Plus jobs get access to skills classes can't use.

The class skills are too important, in some cases, to give up, yeah.

Gladiators have it a bit easier than most; their class skills as Paladins are NOT immediatly relevant or useful until Shield Oath, so you could just go to dungeons as a Gladiator using more cooldowns from other classes. In THIS SPECIFIC CASE ONLY, you can make up for not being a job by being a class and using several cooldowns from classes you normally could not. Pugilist and Lancer, especially.

Still, it's not recommended unless you know your stuff, and in some cases it's downright a bad idea. Marauders immediately get their tanking stance from going Warrior, for instance.

Also at 50 your relic is job-specific and can't be used by your class.

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Originally Posted by Naberrie

It was because your stats were lower. Jobs get a massive stat boost from the Soul Crystal. You were effectively under-leveled by going as a GLA instead of PLD.

The cross class skills are not worth the cost of losing the stat boosts for dungeon runs. Plus jobs get access to skills classes can't use.

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I'm aware of both the stat boosts from Soul Crystals, as well as the extra job skills, which is why I started thinking about this. But the second line what I was most curious to hear people's opinions about, though: whether cross-class skills outweigh the gains from being a job. What makes me a bit more curious now is whether or not clever use of materia can close the gap, if only slightly.

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Originally Posted by BlossomRose

The class skills are too important, in some cases, to give up, yeah.

Gladiators have it a bit easier than most; their class skills as Paladins are NOT immediatly relevant or useful until Shield Oath, so you could just go to dungeons as a Gladiator using more cooldowns from other classes. In THIS SPECIFIC CASE ONLY, you can make up for not being a job by being a class and using several cooldowns from classes you normally could not. Pugilist and Lancer, especially.

Still, it's not recommended unless you know your stuff, and in some cases it's downright a bad idea. Marauders immediately get their tanking stance from going Warrior, for instance.

Also at 50 your relic is job-specific and can't be used by your class.

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That's what I found myself doing, using Bloodbath+Convalescence, Featherfoot, Second Wind, etc. more to increase my survivability. It worked perfectly fine until Aiatar when the healer just couldn't keep up with the damage near the end. I think it could have worked if I had timed my abilities and their cooldowns a bit better, but it also didn't help that she wasn't using Esuna to cure me of those 4 stacks of poison the big dragon gave me. It wasn't until he got to 50% HP that I noticed the healer struggling to keep me topped off.

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Originally Posted by Mysteltain

What makes me a bit more curious now is whether or not clever use of materia can close the gap, if only slightly.

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There is a cap on materia. Pieces can only be maxed out via materia to an extent. You'll get a message when you try to afix materia that would go over the cap warning you.

I'm not saying it's impossible. But just that materia can only do so much. And considering that at that level there aren't many materia slots on each piece to work with, you certainly wouldn't be able to compensate for all the stats you'd be losing without the Crystal.

The class list of which could in theory be better off as a class compared to job is limited to I would think warrior possibly and thm. Reason thm works is our rotation doesnt change at all. Dont have lancer to 34 myself but the utility of certain cross classes make thm viable imo.

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Originally Posted by Naberrie

There is a cap on materia. Pieces can only be maxed out via materia to an extent. You'll get a message when you try to afix materia that would go over the cap warning you.

I'm not saying it's impossible. But just that materia can only do so much. And considering that at that level there aren't many materia slots on each piece to work with, you certainly wouldn't be able to compensate for all the stats you'd be losing without the Crystal.

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Well, that's why I said clever; I know about the materia stat limits. What I'm given to understand is that you're only capped on the stats presented by the weapon. So if an axe had, say, +4 VIT, +3 DET, +3 Parry, what's stopping you from adding STR materia to it? And then if you have earrings that don't have a VIT stat, what's stopping you from stacking VIT materia? Mind you, I haven't tested this, nor have I messed around with materia all that much, but it's an interesting idea.

Also, I think you're forgetting about overmelding. Up to 5 materia can be attached, although you'd have to be lucky as hell to do so on more than one piece.

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Originally Posted by SukoshiSeppen

Snip.

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Nope nope nope a thousand times no for Marauder/Warrior.

MRD/WAR: You gain your big tanking stance the moment you swap. You should never want to be a MRD again.
GLD/PAL: You can run as a GLD if you have lots of other classes leveled, but not for very long. Swap when you get Shield Oath.
THM/BLM: You can run as a THM until your 40's, mostly because using CNJ spells can make up for having slightly lower DPS.
CNJ/WHM: Your WHM spells are too useful to give up.
ACN/SMN: Your SMN pets are too awesome to give up.
ACN/SCH: Your SCH pet is too adorable to give up.
ARC/BRD: Like with THM you can afford to be an ARC instead of a BRD until your 40's, after which point your utility spells are too good.
LNC/DRG: WHY WOULD YOU NOT WANT TO BE ABLE TO USE JUMP?!
PUG/MNK: MNK skills are pretty damn good and like DRG it would just be a bad idea.

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Originally Posted by BlossomRose

Nope nope nope a thousand times no for Marauder/Warrior.

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Agreed on all counts. Just forgetting to pop Defiance in Brayflox--which I, embarrassingly, do often--is incredibly noticeable. On the other hand, I see my DPS shoot up quite a bit, but I'd rather not cause the group to wipe for a bit of extra damage, haha!

I think it'd be neat to see a group of only classes run something like CM or Praetorium, though. After all, it could be that the additional utility granted to each member due to cross-class skills makes up for their overall lower stats. Maybe I'll see if I can get the FC I'm in to do that, just for kicks, heh. If nothing else, it'd be a fun experiment.

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Originally Posted by Mysteltain

Agreed on all counts. Just forgetting to pop Defiance in Brayflox--which I, embarrassingly, do often--is incredibly noticeable. On the other hand, I see my DPS shoot up quite a bit, but I'd rather not cause the group to wipe for a bit of extra damage, haha!

I think it'd be neat to see a group of only classes run something like CM or Praetorium, though. After all, it could be that the additional utility granted to each member due to cross-class skills makes up for their overall lower stats. Maybe I'll see if I can get the FC I'm in to do that, just for kicks, heh. If nothing else, it'd be a fun experiment.

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CM and Prae are sufficiently trivial that, a full party of people in AK/DL gear with their Garuda or Titan weapons (can't Relic, they're job-bound) will absolutely wreck them even using classes instead of jobs.

I'd be more impressed if they managed, say. Turn 1 of BC.

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Originally Posted by BlossomRose

CM and Prae are sufficiently trivial that, a full party of people in AK/DL gear with their Garuda or Titan weapons (can't Relic, they're job-bound) will absolutely wreck them even using classes instead of jobs.

I'd be more impressed if they managed, say. Turn 1 of BC.

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Well, if they're in sufficiently well-melded, HQ 2* gear with HQ level-70 crafted weapon (I say this just because I prefer the look of those weapons over the Primal's, heh), I think it's feasible. Hard as hell, sure, but feasible. Then again, my experience only goes up to HM Titan, so who knows. If I run Coil later this week my opinion may change, but until then I can only speculate.

And I know we're getting pretty theoretical, but I just love thinking about this kind of stuff--the unconventional ways of going about playing a game. Like in DMC3, hardly anyone I talked to used Nevan (the guitar weapon), but under the proper circumstances it makes you damn near untouchable while looking cool as hell. Or when I played Ragnarok Online, people never bothered with the Ninja class outside of spamming this one ice spell it had. But I went for its stealth abilities and found them pretty damn good, if requiring good gear and skill. I just try to not write these sort of things off until I try them--the hard part is getting others to play along =P

healed brayflox multiple times as a lv34 cnj, before i knew i had a job quest to do, was quite fun

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Originally Posted by BlossomRose

Nope nope nope a thousand times no for Marauder/Warrior.

MRD/WAR: You gain your big tanking stance the moment you swap. You should never want to be a MRD again.

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Unless you want to assume a DPS role. MRD gets access to more DPS cooldowns, so it might be worth the switch up until you get your relic and/or AF2 pieces, as those are WAR exclusive (relic and AF2 gear provide much more of a DPS boost than any cross-class skills possibly could; so MRD is not an option anymore, once you get access to that kind of gear)

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Originally Posted by Vodomir

Unless you want to assume a DPS role. MRD gets access to more DPS cooldowns, so it might be worth the switch up until you get your relic and/or AF2 pieces, as those are WAR exclusive (relic and AF2 gear provide much more of a DPS boost than any cross-class skills possibly could; so MRD is not an option anymore, once you get access to that kind of gear)

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If you queue in the DF to DPS as a MRD/WAR you're the worst player in existence because you're screwing your group over.

Do whatever you want with your FC/etc, but talking in terms of THE DUNGEON ROLES MEANT FOR YOU, you should never switch out of WAR.

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Originally Posted by BlossomRose

If you queue in the DF to DPS as a MRD/WAR.

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Never knew that was possible. Thought you were locked into your role and couldn't swap when trying to use duty finder.

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Originally Posted by Ishmachiah

Never knew that was possible. Thought you were locked into your role and couldn't swap when trying to use duty finder.

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Yes, that's my point.

If you queue to DF as a MRD/WAR and then you tell them you're there to DPS, your group has no tank.

AKA gg you are a really awful player.