[spoilers] Lost Memories / Warriors of Light

I have a question about the "lost memories" everyone experiences regarding the warriors of light. I have completed the main story line on a character who met the requirements from 1.0 to get the different in game dialog as a warrior of light. I haven't beaten it on a new character that would have the dialog that will be the norm for many players. Either way, I will be bringing up some spoilers to the plot in asking my question.

There... now that that is out of the way.

I'd like to know more about the nature of the memory loss. I'm not looking for anything that may shatter future plot lines. I would simply like to know, what would someone without the echo see if they looked at a picture of a warrior of light or their name on some document? Perhaps in the Adventurer's Guild or the Grand Company?

What about Warriors of Light who were not strangers coming from outside Eorzea? Would family suddenly forget them despite that picture on the wall? Would a parent know their child went to that final battle, but not recognize them should they come home five years later (despite said family picture on the wall?)

When placed next to a picture, would they still be a stranger? Would the picture have the same shadow against the light effect when looked upon? Would the text or signature of a Warrior of Light be blurred out, or would it be simple disbelief that would keep records from being believed?

It feels like this is something that would be known early on in the plot, but it isn't there.

At the end of the main questline, a Warrior of Light seems to be remembered by the most important characters in the story, but what about the rest of Eorzea? Even before that, there are at least two characters who remember you. One possesses the echo, the other for reasons unknown.

There are no "pictures". There's no cameras in Eorzea and as far as I know, lowly adventurers don't get commissioned portraits. So the only way they would know your face was if they had seen you before

Everyone has had those moments where you can't quite remember where you've seen someone before or you think you recognize someone but you don't know from when or where until they tell you.


When you got taken away from the Battle at Cartenaeu, that's what happened. You were removed from people's memories. They understood that someone was there, but they couldn't remember who it was. There was likely records of 1.0 players all over (You were registered at the Adventurer's Guild and at the Waking sands and at the Grand Companies) But as for remembering who you were as an individual, they wouldn't recall even after seeing your face and writing your name down AGAIN in the log, not being able to place the name or the face together. Momodi even admits that she can't really do that for a non-Light Warrior, because so many adventurers come in through the door.

But they all remember you were there. Even Y'shtola says "We meet again." before correcting herself after she tries to remember where but can't.

I find it hard to believe that with the wide variety of personalities in adventurers, that not a single warrior of light is sentimental enough or vain enough to have a picture drawn/painted/ what have you. And what of all those people you help along the way? Would none of them attempt a likeness in your honor or memory as you face greater dangers to solve their problems?

I don't think saying "cameras don't exist" explains it. There are all sorts of ways one's visual likeness might be captured at any level of income of profession. I'm looking for something more than implication, if possible.

Printing in Eorzea has gotten to the point where things can be reasonably mass produced, or at least that may be implied by the posters you run around and post up for the Gladiator's guild because fans keep stealing them. Either that or some artist is very well paid to paint these posters over and over again.

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Originally Posted by TwinMoon

What would someone without the echo see if they looked at a picture of a warrior of light...

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A person they don't know that seems familiar.

"Where did this picture come from... seems familiar. Gods, when was this? ... Eh, probably not important."

If you've ever been to a family reunion, break out a photo album of the occasion and look around. You'll get that reaction eventually.

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Originally Posted by TwinMoon

or their name on some document?

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"That's a familiar name... do I know them? Gods, I can't remember... probably not."

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Originally Posted by TwinMoon

Would family suddenly forget them despite that picture on the wall?

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Yes.

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Originally Posted by TwinMoon

Would a parent know their child went to that final battle, but not recognize them should they come home five years later (despite said family picture on the wall?)

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Possibly, they'd remember that someone they cared about went into the battle, but not remember who or what happened to them - simply accepting that this is common among people now.

Possibly, they'd think someone was messing with them by leaving pictures of strangers up everywhere. What if you went to the kitchen five minutes from now and there was a picture of a baby with the words, "My Daughter" in your handwriting under it stuck to the fridge. Would your first thought be, "Wow, I must have a daughter I forgot about!" or "WHO IS F$#!ING WITH ME? SHOW YOURSELF."

Etc. Etc. Etc.

Have you ever seen people with real amnesia? It gets pretty bizarre. For instance, Clive Wearing could not form new memories and could only stay lucid in given moments. Without the ability to connect one moment to the next, he'd keep a journal and write over and over, "For the first time, I am truly, completely awake." He wouldn't recognize the past entries - they were in his hand writing, they expressed similar sentiments, but according to everything about his experience it wasn't him. At times it would make him furious and he'd scribble out the past entries that were lying to him. Even Alzheimer's can make you treat the things you once held dearest as completely unfamiliar.

My point is that there's little way to look at this logically. Issues that interfere with mental functioning interfere with the logical tool and break every sensible standard you can think of. Read up on Clive Wearing, Henry Molaison, Phineas Gage, Patient KC, etc. and you'll get an appreciation for how easily you can lose your "soul" long before you're dead. What's happening in Eorzea is just specific and we're meant to assume there's a specific cause. Mental phenomena manifesting via magickal acts, most likely; not so strange, fictionally speaking.

Moose has mostly covered it, but there is one thing I'd like to add.

Cid had a much stronger association with the Warriors of Light than anyone else in the lead-up to the calamity. This meant that a great deal more had to be ripped out of his head to satisfy whatever made people forget, including the context of his life itself. I suspect this is why his memory got scrambled far worse than most, showing the very unfortunate syptoms being described.

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Originally Posted by Catapult

Moose has mostly covered it, but there is one thing I'd like to add.

Cid had a much stronger association with the Warriors of Light than anyone else in the lead-up to the calamity. This meant that a great deal more had to be ripped out of his head to satisfy whatever made people forget, including the context of his life itself. I suspect this is why his memory got scrambled far worse than most, showing the very unfortunate syptoms being described.

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too bad we couldn't use a frying pan to restore his memory....

We are missing a very important key piece of knowledge that would help us understand this whole situation...

Do the warriors of light (the character YOU are playing) know who they are and where they come from?

Your character is notoriously silent throughout most of the cutscenes, with very few options... most of which are simply aesthetic anyway.

As a player, I knew who Cid was the second I saw him in that robe -- it was obvious to me. But would my character recognize that? Cid's memory is fuzzy... so why not ours, too?

We were whisked away by an unknown magic thanks to the help of Louisoix, but there have gotta be side effects to that. The opening cutscene makes it 'seem' as though the stock party is completely aware of themselves and their surroundings when they reappear in the forest, but perhaps that is a misleading assumption for me to make.

Whatever it is, it seems the 'effects' of this 'fuzziness' are only temporary... although it is unclear whether or not it is simply fixed by time or some other catalyst is at play here. For example, Cid only realizes his true calling through the conflict with the Empire. Would he have come to this realization without the catalyst? Would we have, as adventurers?

I think this is left intentionally vague so that you can be AS puzzled as our characters are supposed to be.

That said, the fuzziness helps explain why so many of us changed appearances upon starting 2.0 -- and could also loosely explain why so much gear mysteriously disappeared and materias cracked upon our 'transportation'.

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Originally Posted by Ryuko

nip

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well seeing as how Cid said "What it isn't enough that I know who you are." it would seem to me that we as the warriors of light already know who we are and what we've done Then again he does say I remember you the Floating Isle Van Darnus We thought we ended it that day and you kinda nod

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Originally Posted by Rannie

well seeing as how Cid said "What it isn't enough that I know who you are." it would seem to me that we as the warriors of light already know who we are and what we've done Then again he does say I remember you the Floating Isle Van Darnus We thought we ended it that day and you kinda nod

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That is true. I wonder if your character always knew or if Cid is the one who jostled your memory.

he/she does because even Minfilia was like Aye I remember you

Well, in Minfilia's case I think it's assumed because she has the Echo she simply viewed adventurer's memories and saw first hand who we really are. Which basically proves the player at least is in full possession of their past memories.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Well, in Minfilia's case I think it's assumed because she has the Echo she simply viewed adventurer's memories and saw first hand who we really are. Which basically proves the player at least is in full possession of their past memories.

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It is my assumption that our character first starts 'remembering' through the power of the echo, as well. There is one cutscene that happens very early on where you can see the three Grand Company leaders talking on the battlefield. I think this is the moment your character is supposed to start putting the pieces together, but not entirely because you are viewing something you were never even there for to begin with (you were presumably on the battlefield when this all went down).

Well in my character's case she wouldn't have known anything anyway seeing as she never was at Carteneau (both from a narrative and literal perspective - I never got far in the storyline before the final maintenance and even during the final day of service I never made it out to Mor Dhona so I just sat in the Gridania Adventurer's Guild til I was booted off the server ;)), thus I didn't get the 'Legacy opening' for 1.0. Although my character would have still known about the Calamity itself - she still lived through it regardless, she just wasn't at Carteneau when all hell broke loose.

In the common area of the Waking Sands there is a Miqo'te npc warrior of light for the 1st part of the main storyline. Una I think. She might have been the same Una that was in 1.0. Anyways, if you talk to her between missions it becomes clear that her memory is a bit fuzzy. She remembers being at Carteneau, and is generally confused as to what is going on, how she got here, and why no one remembers her or believes her when she tells them who she is. But she also has forgotten some of her friends who are also Warriors of Light and show up later. When they are reunited she is shocked that she had forgotten them, despite having a long friendship. So it doesn't seem unlikely that although that the PC may remember events but not recognize people at first.

The magic that is messing with people's memories seems to be pretty powerful so even if there are records and pictures, if a person is looking at portrait labeled "Nari Alani--Warrior of Light" it may not even register in their mind, the magic preventing them from realizing they are even seeing anything and leaving them with a vague deja vu when the encounter you. Likewise, this magic may force an ordinary person to disregard action you take that indicates you could be a warrior of light--such as already being a white mage. At least that's the rationalization I've come up with. :)

I wish that they had not gone to such lengths to remove any instance of your character actually being affected by events around them though, as it can make things more confusing and sometimes left me feeling very disconnected from the story. I'm not asking for anything complex like Bioware's dialogue wheel, but I wish my character was a bit less of an automaton sometimes.

Oh yeah, I noticed her in the storage room and how she seemed amnesiac. I did consider that it might have been yet another example of the 'Calamity amnesia', but then I realized, she was a Walker of the Path, therefore, she would have had the Echo (and also being in a group of Echo users who would be able to verify her story, just like Minfilia does to a player who had the Legacy opening).

So, I believe, she actually has real, full blown amnesia, not the magical kind that everyone else has. Because the Echo works on memories, if a person's memories are already lost/muddled, then the Echo isn't going to be able to do much. I guess she must have been injured pretty bad at Carteneau or something.

I also wonder where that roegadyn and that curt elezen in the green robe and face mask were who she always hung around with in 1.0 have gone - the ones my Path Companion during Together We Stand said "were not very polite" and "such men are not worth her time". ;)

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Originally Posted by TwinMoon

What about Warriors of Light who were not strangers coming from outside Eorzea?

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All of the Warriors of Light were strangers from outside Eorzea. That's part of the lore.

I must respectfully disagree. I have not seen anything to convince me that all warriors of light are from outside Eorzea, even if the ones in the cut scenes may be. For the sake of the argument you could just as easily say you (as the adventurer) did not come to Eorzea alone. Only you end up with the echo. Would your comrade forget you? I think it was one of the live interviews or another forum post where it was said that the main characters we see in the sequences could both be a representation of us and/or existing in the world beside us and we very well could run into them. I take that to mean that there are multiple paths to be left up to the imagination of the player. Different paths, that all lead to the same end. You being at the Battle of Cartenaeu.

Some good arguments have been made in this thread, but it would be nice to get a solid response from the source. I wish I could have been awake for the most recent live letter. It is definitely something I would have asked about.

In both 1.0 and ARR the game does refer to the player specifically as being a 'foreigner' or 'from another land recently arrived in Eorzea' (especially if you're Gridanian, due to forestborn Gridanians' natural xenophobia), but that doesn't necessarily mean your character isn't Eorzean born.

It's up to you how what happened in their backstory. This isn't a Bioware game where the character's past is prewritten and you just choose from which one you liked at character creation. Your character's past is a blank slate as far as the storyline is concerned, and it's the player's choice whether those blanks are filled in or not.