SE not banning Goldsellers

Left the game for abit due to University. Come back, we still have Goldsellers that spam SO MUCH, that I actually have to take a picture of the screen with my phone, to be able to have time to type his name into blacklist.

I have to agree with this. I took about 20 people off the top of my list last week, thinking, the game has been out a while, these people should be long gone... WRONG! Same names, same tells. But why would SE ban them when they are paying/I hacked this account but its still paid for customers? They wont! So I can only ask that SE give us right click blacklist adding and for the love of god I need more then 200 slots!

A company that allows so many goldsellers, is usually viewed in a bad light.

I sometimes get tells from RMT that I have blacklisted. It seems they can sneak in messages if your blacklist is loading.

Yeah, I'm up to 88 on my blist, and I have been removing all of the characters they have erased. The report system is so horrible that I now refuse to report them. IF however I could copy/paste their names all into one report, I would gladly do so, but as it is now, I wont, they can just look at all the people I've blacklisted because it is ALL gil sellers.

I believe I've been able to erase about 10 off my list. Most of the names though are from when I first started playing and had to ignore about 10 of them in all the cities and major areas. They're still on my list.

I do believe they are working on it though. They have erased quite a few names across the board, but the amount of gil sellers out there is just ridiculous.


@Tanama: Yea I do to, but only immediately after teleporting to an area one may sneak through. Just think they're able to get in before the ignore list has time to catch up with you.

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Originally Posted by Renen

Left the game for abit due to University. Come back, we still have Goldsellers that spam SO MUCH, that I actually have to take a picture of the screen with my phone, to be able to have time to type his name into blacklist.

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Right Click on name. Send Tell. delete /tell and type /blacklist add. Then put "..." around the players name.

So let's say GoldSpam2Xtrme is spamming.
right click on name so it shows in chat box...

/tell GoldSpam2Xtrme - Then edit it to this:

/blacklist add "GoldSpam2Xtrme" (with the quotations around the name)

kind of a pain I know, but until we get a right click blacklist option - it works for me.

can also create a macro with this in it to make it easier

/blist add <r>

unless its those /shout RMT spam messages, then yeah do the tell thing.

Or SE could ban them... But apparently they dont care enough >_<

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Originally Posted by Renen

Or SE could ban them... But apparently they dont care enough >_<

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I am of the impression that SE lacks the manpower to ban them in a timely manner, and even if they did, there are always more. It's not actually as bad as it used to be on Balmung.

Another funny thing is me and my wife plays XIV, she's on another zone like Ul'dah while say I'm in Coerthas and her name starts with a D--- valentine, I'm R--- Valentine but we get the /tell from these RMT at the exact same time ALWAYS from same person. How the hell is RMTs going through the player list so damn fast.

Are they selling Gold Ore or Gold Ingots?

Honestly if they kept banhammering the spammers the sellers would just create new chars or hack a new account and keep spamming. SE simply isn't wasting their manpower with futile bans other than to take care of some of the hacked accounts. It's better for them to use the spammers, and the Task Force's time, to potentially weed out more accounts including those of the gil BUYERS which are the real problem.

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Originally Posted by Tanama

I sometimes get tells from RMT that I have blacklisted. It seems they can sneak in messages if your blacklist is loading.

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I reported this ingame as a bug. If your blacklist window is open the blacklist filter does not work.

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Originally Posted by Renen

Or SE could ban them... But apparently they dont care enough >_<

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Or they could just ban you because well you don't seem too nice. /sarcasm off

But seriously they do need to properly investigate reports, if they just used a one click suspension once someone was reported I could report all the people I don't like to suspend their account, I could even do it to randoms, and we all saw how the last suspension of legitimate players has gone.

SE ban on report = legitimate players get suspended (even temp) = bad press for SE for banning for no reason.

SE conduct proper investigations = players get annoyed about it = bad press for doing nothing.

See how SE cannot win here? They will manage to get some anti-RMT measures in and plug up some back doors into the software allowing this in due course. Another reason it looks like they are doing nothing is because they can't tell us what they are doing, or RMT will find ways around it.

Also they ban a character 3 more will get created, then ban an account 5 more will get created, all they can do is IP ban RMT, but this causes problems with people's ISP generate different IPs every time you connect, mac ban, you can spoof your mac address in seconds, or even automate it with a script. Bans really don't work we need active measures in game to stop them.

Somehow they're not shouting anymore, but I get spam tells once I log in in the morning.

I think it sucks that 99% of the bots added in my blist are still there, and now and then I see one deleted.

I have no idea if they're still around, and my blist is getting full.

This is just out of control and it doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

Heres the thing ,
People keep buying their services and thus there is going to be more Hacked accounts and more GilSellers .

But hey , all the Gil Buyers are innocent.............

Here's an idea: Disable shouts until you hit level 10 or so.
Then Have 1 GM per world, porting around cities, banning any 1 who shouts RMT adverts.

To me it's simple...

Add a "click report" button next to the names of characters. If a person gets enough reports they get instantly banned. If a person gets added to a blacklist enough they get banned. If a person shouts spams in a town they get banned.

Of course SE would need to pay a team on each server to keep an eye on each zone, and keep an eye on reports on characters, but it would keep the game clean of rmt's.

I think if we pay for a service they should at least work a little harder don't you think?

Until SE finds a better method to get this fixed, they just need to have something like find words like "100% handwork" then teleport them to Mordion Gaol. That way it will keep them away from players eyes.

Then they would just write a bot to send tells to randomly generated characters for a name, just ensure the first name is not Rep, and there we go seconds of work and your idea is just wasting money through GMs not doing much.

Besides the other advise already given in this thread, my only additional advise on trying to blist people, esp shouts is this. If you are sitting in a zone that they are just shouting non stop, and your finding it very hard to scroll up to get their name, just zone out to another zone, or zone into your inn. This will stop the constant scrolling giving you time to find the name to /tell, or w/e you need to do to blist them. I see so many complaints of people not able to get the name cause of scrolling, I'm like dude just zone out somewhere.

I agree this is just a plague atm, but I'm sure they'll have a solution soon. It doesn't really bother me too much, i have my /shout and /yell on a separate chat tab, so it doesn't clutter my other channels. It's unfortunate I have to do this, sense it kinda disconnects me from people that may genuinely need assistance, but until its fixed that's my solution so it doesn't bug me. If i need to monitor the channels for important shouts, ill switch to the tab i put it on temporarily and deal with any /blisting i need to do.

Also forgot to add, before all the RMT shouting got bad, there was already a lot of crap in shout going on anyhow from players. So it isn't really a big loss either way, putting it on a separate tab, imho.

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Originally Posted by RyujinUzikin

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So you don't think there will be FCs that gang up on some griefer and get him banned?

I think the GM in game is the best option.

The interesting thing is this: I read over and over how SE doesn't have the resources (man power) to sit and watch all the areas of every server blah blah.

RMT seems to be able to automate all sorts of things. I don't see why SE cannot create a GM bot or server side script that looks for RMT tells and shouts then bans. If the bot can't do this because there needs to be some sort of human intelligence deciding to ban, why can't they hire one person to monitor all areas for RMT shouts and tells? SE is not limited to be in only one area at as time.

Rather, they prefer to wait and do a sweep. This stops them for a short period of time but within a few days, RMT is back bigger than ever, until the next sweep.

I had more to say but 1000 char limit is a PITA

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Originally Posted by Livilda

I am of the impression that SE lacks the manpower to ban them in a timely manner, and even if they did, there are always more. It's not actually as bad as it used to be on Balmung.

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On Balmung it is horrible. The same gathering bots are everywhere. The same ones I added to my Blist since head start are still there. The way you decrease RMT is quickly ban them. Not the whole I'll investigate them for several weeks let them make a lot of money and then ban them. You hurt their pocket books, by quickly banning every single last one as quickly as possible and eventually they will move to where they do not have to play wack a mole and can make easy money.

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Originally Posted by Aleksandr

On Balmung it is horrible. The same gathering bots are everywhere. The same ones I added to my Blist since head start are still there. The way you decrease RMT is quickly ban them. Not the whole I'll investigate them for several weeks let them make a lot of money and then ban them. You hurt their pocket books, by quickly banning every single last one as quickly as possible and eventually they will move to where they do not have to play wack a mole and can make easy money.

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Please see my last post stating why bans don't work to decrease RMT, SE need to find the exploits being used on their servers to prevent the bots, if they can do this it will take much longer for RMT to make gil and the spam shouts will vanish.

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Originally Posted by Renen

Left the game for abit due to University. Come back, we still have Goldsellers that spam SO MUCH, that I actually have to take a picture of the screen with my phone, to be able to have time to type his name into blacklist.

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Because gold sellers are still out there spamming, this is hardly cause for making the very bold statement, "SE not banning Goldsellers."

I suppose you don't have a lot of knowledge about how the RMT "profession" works. Each tiny little aspect of their operation is separated by different accounts. There's Botanists who go out and collect botany items. Miners who go out and collect Mining items, Fishers who go out and collect Fishing items. Then there's accounts that those items are sent to and held. They fan those out to various accounts to put on the market to bring in gil. There's accounts that the gil from sales is sent to which holds that gil in small amounts here and there. And yes, there's also separate cheater accounts that do the hacks, exploits, etc, and they, too, have their own network of suppliers, consolidators, etc.

When someone places an order for gil, the consolidators THEN send various amounts of gil to yet another separate account, individually, and then that account fills the order by sending it to the person who ordered it. These accounts are usually stolen accounts. The spammers are also usually stolen accounts. They steal the accounts when potential customers go to the RMT websites and create accounts there with the exact same email and password as they use for the game, OR, they inadvertently install a keylogger on their computer...the most common is actually the former because naive people use the same passwords for everything.

The point of this whole explanation is to let you have somewhat of an idea of how massive an RMT operation is, and many of the accounts they use to do their work aren't even owned by them...they're stolen accounts. Most of their highly visible, dirty work is done on those stolen accounts, and so long as people keep buying what they're selling, you'll never see an end to the spammers no matter WHAT steps and actions a gaming company takes to suspend, ban, confiscate, etc. The mere fact that such a huge market exists actually demonstrates that SE has created some pretty huge areas of the game that players loathe doing, but must be done in order to keep the rest of the game sustainable. This is where RMT comes in. They eliminate what players do not like doing so they can get back to doing what they enjoy.

The real way to stop RMT isn't by suspending, confiscating and banning. It's by changing core design problems and flaws that encourage RMT to exist.

It's gotten a smidge less over the past week or so, but I still try to avoid Ul'dah unless the story takes me there (or Hunting Logs in Thanalan). I have over 60 names on my blacklist, only one of them isn't an RMT spammer. So far, the number of days that I've had without seeing RMT spam I can count on one hand.

While I wish they could deal with these accounts faster, I know that they can only go so fast during their investigations. I still wish they had a more effective means of reporting these RMT spammers, at the very least.

The only reason these RMT spammers still thrive (regardless of game) is because there is a demand for their services. So long as there are people who are willing to buy in-game currencies/items/hacks, there will always be those will provide those services for a price (and a willingness to for the consumer to compromise their account).

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Originally Posted by Delsus

Just an addition, RMT will also hack legitimate sites and install a script that installs a keylogger to anyone visiting the site, or they will have infected ads on legitimate sites (which is why no script and adblockers are suggested) One of the biggest hacks in FFXI was after the popular wiki ffxiclopedia got hacked, a script was installed and masses of people got hacked.

Just because someone doesn't visit dodgy sites doesn't mean they won't get hacked.

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MSNBC's website once had an advertisement on their site that had malicious coding attached to it that would then send emails out to everyone on your contact list with the same malicious coding. They were not aware of it until they were informed about this ad. One of the webcomics I read also had such an ad, and they were quick to deal with that (and report the advertising company). I've been using browser addons such as Ad Block (Ad Block Pro) and No Script ever since.

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Originally Posted by Nanga

*snip*

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Just an addition, RMT will also hack legitimate sites and install a script that installs a keylogger to anyone visiting the site, or they will have infected ads on legitimate sites (which is why no script and adblockers are suggested) One of the biggest hacks in FFXI was after the popular wiki ffxiclopedia got hacked, a script was installed and masses of people got hacked.

Just because someone doesn't visit dodgy sites doesn't mean they won't get hacked.

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Originally Posted by Renen

A company that allows so many goldsellers, is usually viewed in a bad light.

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Ummm... What? I'm pretty sure they aren't allowing them. If you'd check their notes on this sort of thing, there have been plenty of accounts already banned for RMT related charges. How would you propose they deal with them? Everything seems easier when you're the one standing on the sidelines :P

This has always been a problem in MMOs, regardless of how much manpower a company has.

Except you know, they are banning them...? Pretty sure gil didn't go from $5 to $30 for no reason, and I hardly ever see shouts from them now. I still get the occasional whisper here and there, but it's down significantly from the start.

Tip: Never go by your blacklist to see if they're banning them. Banning an account does NOT make the characters show up in your list as (deleted).

Here is an idea. SE obviously does not have the resources to have someone moderating chat all day on every server in every Zone. What they could do is allow players to moderate for them. Not everyone, but they could utilize a select few players on each server as glorified mods that could at the very least mute those accounts preventing them from using chat until SE can review the logs at a later time.

You may say, blah blah people will abuse the system. SE can have strict rules set on those chosen to mod. Abuse of the system would result in either a suspension or ban from the game. The worst someone could do is lock up a persons chat for a few days. SE would have to be very particular about who they choose as well.

I still get plenty of RMT spam whispers. I usually get three or so with in the first couple minutes after I log in, like clockwork. Also Ul'dah is still saturated with the shout spam so I don't know why you think it's going down any. Maybe they are doing something about it but there are soooooo many others to take their places.

Also as the other people have said, as long as instant gratification people keep buying the gold, they aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

I've had to remove several people on my blacklist because it's no longer a name but just (Deleted). Granted several =/= the dozens that are on there, but it's better than none.

Yup, removed names the other night that I had black listed a month ago because my list was nearing cap (yay!)....usually a MMO company bans these types, right? Wrong. Same sellers spamming and whispering.

Talk about lame.

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Originally Posted by sasakusaku

Yup, removed names the other night that I had black listed a month ago because my list was nearing cap (yay!)....usually a MMO company bans these types, right? Wrong. Same sellers spamming and whispering.

Talk about lame.

Well that confirms to me they don't give a crap about gil sellers.

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Again, you really need to get a firm understanding of the operation to know what is going on.

Banning/suspending the RMT accounts doesn't hurt the RMT's one bit, because those accounts don't even belong to them. They're all stolen accounts. They log onto those accounts and make "throwaway" characters with generated names and spam with those characters until that account gets suspended/banned. This is why you think you're still getting spam tells/shouts from the same characters. The name is the same because the prior account with that character name deleted the character, freeing up that generated name to be used again by a whole other account.

They don't operate or think the same way we do about accounts and characters. Those accounts/characters hold absolutely zero value to them. It's all throwaway.

Think people keep missing the fact that some of the shouters are hacked accounts. Think for a second and ask yourself, what would SE gain from banning an account that does not hold RMT gil. Those hacked accounts, used for /shouting, are better spent staying in game because they lead to the main source.

Does an undercover cop go into a bad situation to find the drug peddlers and end the case there or do they go in knees deep to find the drug lord. If you close the door to soon it just causes the targets to keep themselves more on guard and in the shadows, but if you allow them to roam it gives them more chance to mess up and catch them in the act.

Why explain to me about gil seller practices when I know all about them after 10+ years having to deal with their ilk? What I am saying is they have still not banned quite a few of them!!!

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Originally Posted by Airget

Think people keep missing the fact that some of the shouters are hacked accounts. Think for a second and ask yourself, what would SE gain from banning an account that does not hold RMT gil. Those hacked accounts, used for /shouting, are better spent staying in game because they lead to the main source.

Does an undercover cop go into a bad situation to find the drug peddlers and end the case there or do they go in knees deep to find the drug lord. If you close the door to soon it just causes the targets to keep themselves more on guard and in the shadows, but if you allow them to roam it gives them more chance to mess up and catch them in the act.

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Exactly. Those hacked accounts hold zero value to the RMT's, and SE knows this, too. But the reality is this: RMT's don't use the same account to perform more than 1 function of their operation. So, the shouters really don't lead to anything else.

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Originally Posted by sasakusaku

Why explain to me about gil seller practices when I know all about them after 10+ years having to deal with their ilk? What I am saying is they have still not banned quite a few of them!!!

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If you know all about it, then why are you making false accusations against SE? If you know all about it, then you'd know SE has been doing what they think is appropriate to ban/suspend/confiscate. If you know all about it, then you'd know those accounts that are spamming you with the same character name aren't the same accounts that were spamming you a month ago.

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Originally Posted by sasakusaku

Why explain to me about gil seller practices when I know all about them after 10+ years having to deal with their ilk? What I am saying is they have still not banned quite a few of them!!!

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lol ... in the same statement you question why we're explaining something to you and then immediately justify the explanation. Also if there were 1,000 , and 500 were banned would you notice? or would you notice if 1,000 were banned and 1,000 more were created?

People seem to think there's this finite supply of them, there isn't. Between hacked accounts and w/e other means they will keep coming. There really is no "stopping" them completely, just mitigating. Adding a right click to black list would be a good start, proper spam filtering in general chat would also help.

Keep in mind there are a finite number of staff working on problems, would you rather have no spammers but still get 1017 / 9000 errors?

There's been a Halsteinf Young standing by the moogle in Gridania since before the most recent RMT purge and its quite apparent that's not a player. He never, ever logs out or moves from the spot. He's clearly a middleman bot recieving and transfering gil to other RMTs.

Could he be someone who pays $15/month to stand around doing nothing but oogle moogles 24/7? Its a possibility but a very very very very very low one.