this game is all about grinding at max level.

that is nowadays THE way for mmo developpers to try hiding the fact that their game is an empty shell with no substance.

they do not care to reproduce again and again and again and again this, because they just need a small portion of the initial population to keep the game bankable.

fanboyz will be always happy, true gamers like myself will tell the truth and will get flammed.

yoshi already won, he sold lots of ffXiV ARR copies and now he can go rest & count how many $ he has earned.

when the max level of a mmo consist only on endless grind, something is really wrong here.

no the game is not new, it is a 3 years old game, repatched, revamped, but still 3 years old.

at least, i would thank you square enix for releasing a mediocre game at best, i can stop playing it since i've seen it all already and go play my offline games.

Thank you so much, i did not know mmorpgs could have an ending, thank you for being the first to deliver this new feature.

Whoa, I mean whoa. An mmo that is nothing more than grinding at max level? Surely this game must be the first with a grind in it even though this is only how they've been for the last 13-15 years or so.

Thank you of your valuable opinion. However the news is: a MMO is ALWAYS made of grind. Hell, even normal RPG are grind. How else are you supposed to make people play a game for months without ?

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Originally Posted by gok19k

Wahhhhhhhh

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you're welcome.

I'm also so glad that there is still at least SOME grinding in MMOs. The OP is attempting to use colorful adjectives and misleading prepositions to ilicit and emotional response while at the same timeofferign an intolerant opinion with little to no flexibility for discussion. How ya like them apples?

MMOs are about finding your own thing to be as a part of the world provided to you. Sure, if you wanna be "that one guy who has slightly shinier armor than most" it's gonna be about grind.

...That being said, at the moment FFXIV ARR doesn't do all that good of a job at providing options once you're there. Leveling up is just a brief distraction per se if you're going to have large amount of time to play each week. Gear tier progression isn't something everyone is instantly attracted to.

You state it is "a grind" without giving alternatives. I consider driving my motorbike along the M5 "a grind" my alternative therefore is to get off the M5 and take the A roads. What is your alternative measure to your particular grind?

lol, these stupid posts are pretty entertaining, welcome to your first MMO? Just quit now, don't bother with a "I hate this game because it doesn't cater specifically to me" post please.

It will always be a grind, the point here would then be how to make the grind enjoyable?
Doing AK 8 times a week for a long period of time does loose its magic quite fast. Im just hoping for less "token" systems, and more drop chance in a difficult instance.

welcome to MMO gaming bro

its all about who kills the bosses first and then the new bosses of the next end game content patch

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Originally Posted by Evangela

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Originally Posted by gok19k

Wahhhhhhhh

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you're welcome.

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XD EPIC
You made my day i cant stop laughing. Hillarious :D

I sympathize with part of you post. For those of us who are used to the more fleshed out, single player video games, this mmo-style game play comes off as less then fulfilling because everything seems to be shelled and hollow. On top of this, the story (if there is one) is stretched out to great proportions because it needs to sustain months of game play.

Mmos are not as hollow as people perceive. There is a lot of freedom in how your character and story develops so you have the freedom to insert your own mythos into your character.

I too have moments in which I am starving for something more sustainable then the mmo, and that's when I shift gears and play an old single player rpg or read a good book. They refuel my imagination.

I'm not sure if you're just burnt out of the mmo experience. But if you're just tired of it all in general and don't agree with anything I have to say...then I guess the single player experience really is for you.

I remember when people said XIV ARR won't be a grind because it uses Quest Based leveling instead of monster grinding and FATES "will change the genre forever."

This game is not 3 years old you are wrong. release date was 8/27/2013... that's 2013!

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Originally Posted by gok19k

true gamers like myself will tell the truth and will get flammed.

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This actually made me lol. I'm not going to flame you for your opinion but you need to realize what a true gamer is. This generation hasn't bred any "True Gamers" that I have seen. Go back to the games that began this entire MMO community and you'll see what I mean.

Grinding has been a part of every MMO in history. Whether you are grinding levels, grinding gear, or grinding keys to access higher stuff to grind more gear. It's grinding and it always has been. Now you want to complain about grinding? Even WoW is full of grinding. Hello Valor points for gear along with not 1, not 2, but 3 different raid difficulties to do each week on the SAME content?!

Judgements are being passed on a game not even 2 months old yet like they should be up to WoW standards. Well newsflash, WoW was worse then this at launch. Most people just don't know that because they didn't start playing until it was dumbed down to no end causing us, "the true gamers", to quit because it was mind numbingly easy and pointless outside of Heroic raiding.

So no I won't "White Knight" for SE as this game does have issues that need to be fixed but I will tell you that your entire opinion is either flawed or you jumped into an MMO for the first time expecting it to be a FPS or something.

You should try ginding for a legendary on GW2. This game compare to that is nothing.

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Originally Posted by Huxer

I'm also so glad that there is still at least SOME grinding in MMOs. The OP is attempting to use colorful adjectives and misleading prepositions to ilicit and emotional response while at the same timeofferign an intolerant opinion with little to no flexibility for discussion. How ya like them apples?

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Love apples! Love them more when they come from the heart, with a side order of context, not canned talking points. He has a valid point although this forum is perhaps not the place to make it. How do we make games that bring people together in a way that supports the classes, not create animosity between them?

How do you show advancement through levels without it becoming mind numbing repetition of dungeon runs, that no one enjoys. When does challenge become chore? Not this game, but some game needs to think about this.

The gaming population seems to have changed. We need a different carrot, and maybe even a different stick.

Every MMO has grinding content at some point or another and to be fair the grinding in this game isn't that bad as other MMOs.

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Originally Posted by Ariyn

This actually made me lol. I'm not going to flame you for your opinion but you need to realize what a true gamer is. This generation hasn't bred any "True Gamers" that I have seen. Go back to the games that began this entire MMO community and you'll see what I mean.

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I wonder what would happen if he played Ragnarok Online before renewal or tried to farm for a legendary on GW2. xD

Stop the press

This guy has discovered something huge

the world must know....that MMO's have grind at level cap

:/

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Originally Posted by Ariyn

So no I won't "White Knight" for SE as this game does have issues that need to be fixed but I will tell you that your entire opinion is either flawed or you jumped into an MMO for the first time expecting it to be a FPS or something.

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Even CoD is a grind! Gotta get that Prestige!

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

FATES "will change the genre forever."

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Did someone really say that? Or are you creating a straw man?
Cause I'm having a hard time believing anyone would actually say that, considering that we have other games that already use the FATE system.

Here's a fresh idea, since mmos are too grindy:
1 level, kill 1 mob to get that level (so its not too grindy) 1 quest, 1 zone to explore so you don't waste all your time looking at stuff. 1 set of armor that you get in full by running the 1 dungeon once. After that you go on an epic adventure up a hill (beware of the rocks on the road, don't stub your toe) to get the epic LEGENDARY "Sword of Ultimate Laze", then, since everything is done in about 30 minutes, to prevent logging into feel like a grind, you will have no more reason to play, thus you will not have to log in more than once.

Grind-free MMO Model © #GamingOf2014
You heard it here first!

the problem with nowadays mmorpgs is that they give us grind instead of giving us real content, that is pure laziness from their side, it is rude toward mmorpg players to inflict this kind of fake content, it actually shows that they do not have respect for mmorpgs players, they think we are brainless sheeps who like doing the same stuff for hours everyday, instead of giving us exciting real high end content.

You do know any and all MMOs are in essence a 'carrot on a stick' right? Any game you cannot 'beat' is going to be full of time sinks to keep you playing until the next content patch is released.

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Originally Posted by gok19k

true gamers

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Implying people that have a different opinion are fanboys and not a ' true gamer'? Get over yourself, your opinion isn't any more valid than anybody else's.

I remember getting legendary animal taming in Ultima Online a long, long time ago. Now that was a serious grind :)

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Originally Posted by gok19k

Thank you so much, i did not know mmorpgs could have an ending, thank you for being the first to deliver this new feature.

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LOL! Ok so first you complain about the grind (the most efficient carrot on a stick there is), then make a stab at how it has an ending. Question: Are you even in high school yet? Your trolling is amateurish, at best.

Let me know when that totally original, never-ending MMORPG with no repetitive content that youre so eager to play comes out.

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Originally Posted by gok19k

the problem with nowadays mmorpgs is that they give us grind instead of giving us real content, that is pure laziness from their side, it is rude toward mmorpg players to inflict this kind of fake content, it actually shows that they do not have respect for mmorpgs players, they think we are brainless sheeps who like doing the same stuff for hours everyday, instead of giving us exciting real high end content.

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SO your complaint is with modern day MMORPG's.. lol smh

MMOs are just a instant messaging service with pixels.

OP, you're obviously a self-important egomaniac who doesn't realize the game only came out 2 months ago (including Open Beta and Early Access). Next month is Patch 2.1 with a LOT more end-game content to do... How many MMOs actually put out major patches and plan for major patches every 3 months?

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Originally Posted by RonPierce

Here's a fresh idea, since mmos are too grindy:
1 level, kill 1 mob to get that level (so its not too grindy) 1 quest, 1 zone to explore so you don't waste all your time looking at stuff. 1 set of armor that you get in full by running the 1 dungeon once. After that you go on an epic adventure up a hill (beware of the rocks on the road, don't stub your toe) to get the epic LEGENDARY "Sword of Ultimate Laze", then, since everything is done in about 30 minutes, to prevent logging into feel like a grind, you will have no more reason to play, thus you will not have to log in more than once.

Grind-free MMO Model © #GamingOf2014
You heard it here first!

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hahahaha where can I reserve my copy!?

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Originally Posted by PandaPause

hahahaha where can I reserve my copy!?

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Oh, once it goes on sale it'll be on failedmmo.com and will require a 1 time payment of 1 dollar so paying for it doesn't start to feel too grindy.

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Originally Posted by PoiPoiKuroi

It will always be a grind, the point here would then be how to make the grind enjoyable?
Doing AK 8 times a week for a long period of time does loose its magic quite fast. Im just hoping for less "token" systems, and more drop chance in a difficult instance.

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Coil? Pretty sure Coil.

I would have liked the grind spread out more over level 1-50 rather than heavily focused at endgame.

Funny the amount of effort the devs put into >50 dungeons, guildhests, armor, storyline, weapons, mobs, quests, zones, etc, etc. And all of it is a mere speedbump in the road over by a game that allows you to skyrocket yourself to the cap in record time via FATEs.

If they had really spread out the grind over 50 levels, only the hardest of the hardcores would be bored at this point.

It seems like a waste of dev effort to make all that stuff imho - and people whine because there isn't enough to do at the point where Yoshi intended our focus to be.

2.10 might change this, but I still think there is a lot of wasted potential in not making level >50 content more meaningful via a longer grind.

Play Disgaea and get all the levels to 9999. Then we'll talk.

I donno, it's been almost two month's right? The character I started fresh is still level 44 and waiting on my group to get together for storyline Garuda. I can't say that it's just a speed bump.

It's all about what you put into it. If all you're doing is focused on the gear grind, then sure, you're getting bored. If you're participating in the casual player-made events and such, it can get very busy and varied, and hella enjoyable.

And that's not even touching those on Balmung or Gilgamesh who get to witness or participate in the RP that goes on.

Again I cite this underlining, not even consciously aware greed that permeates through players these days that insists they need to 'get something' out of their time spent in the game. Is it simply not enough these days to be entertained?

Go out site-seeing through the woods of Gridania. Walk through the Sagoli desert and just look at how the sun and moon shimmers on the stands. Have a picnic with a pal out at the Burning Wall. This game is so much more than just what tasks are handed to you.

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Originally Posted by gok19k

yoshi already won, he sold lots of ffXiV ARR copies and now he can go rest & count how many $ he has earned.

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It is not a B2P game.
It is not about how many boxes were sold, but about how many players play every month. So no, Yoshi can't go rest, the real work start now.

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Originally Posted by ruinedmirage

Play Disgaea and get all the levels to 9999. Then we'll talk.

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gear and items included? ^^

well for now it is just a grind.

PvP for players who like beating each other up arrives later

Hildebrand Story quests for people who like some comedy in their game for endgame won't arrive until later.

Housing for people who enjoy other methods of stat bonus and buffs, having a home to decorate, and something to spend all that useless gil building up in their pockets won't arrive until later.

Not much to do now but to grind.

If you're not grinding at max level... what ARE you doing? I mean really.
Empty new content released as fast as you can complete it? (wait you're grinding new content)
Repeating old content to gain the rewards you want? (wait you're grinding old content)
Endless PvP to test your skill? (wait you're grinding PvP to prove you're the best)


I prefer Time-gated content believe it or not. It gives you a versatility to your grind. XI didn't start with a variety but as it aged it generated more content which could be interspersed to build up a weekly play variety.
HNM (long spawn windows), Dynamis (3 day wait), Limbus (3 day wait + megaboss gated by clearing lower level content), Assaults (1 tag/day), Nyzul (can do assaults OR Nyzul assault), Salvage (gated 1 tag/day, and tags cost assault points), Einherjar (wait to enter + content gated by clearing lower tiers), Abyssea (need to earn stones/hours in the zone to continue to be there)... even BSNM/KSNM/etc was gated by the rate you could grind seals. Hell even story line/quest lines were gated with wait times to prevent people from rushing. What it eventually lead to was a game that had various grinds and you didn't feel like you only had 1 option. However it didn't start that way!

Yes there are grinds in ARR, yes I'm ok with that. I look forward to when there is a larger variety of things to do, but I didn't expect it to be there TODAY.
ARR is "3 years old" but at the same time, all the content it has has been revamped and refurbished to make the game both more accessible, and easier to scale to add challenges. A major part of the life of ARR was not spent in "new content cycle" so comparing it to where other games were at after 3 years is unfair.

quit? maybe? go play tera and be killed?