Curiosity about AK

So I have tanked successfully Ifrit more times than I care to count. I have had no issues with WP unless the DPS was not on the ball for the second boss. So I figured I would give AK a try. I regret my decision in life about trying that. I could not pull agro off anyone even with a iLvl 55 sword and patchwork gear. Some still my starting artifact armor with a DL belt and iLvl 55 pants and boots.

Is this a DL minimum for tanks or was I just in a pug with people who were over geared for me to tank for successfully?

with i55 weapon only thing that should be giving you any kind of issues really is going to be relic. Anything before relic you should be able to hold aggro.

I noticed most of the people had Ifrit and Varies weapons. But again, I could not even pull a mob off of them with a provoke, flash halone combo. I consider myself a fairly competent tank. But I could not pull agro to save my life. I had depleted my MP and it did little good.

I know it very dumb question and I am sorry I am new into Final Fantasy MMO what does AK mean?

AK = Amdapor Keep

I notice a lot of players have itchy trigger fingers and will hit the mob as soon as the tank touches it, just let people know to wait a little before attacking and you should be fine. The initial hits are so important to enmity bar and people do not pay attention, not only that once they have hate they keep attacking!

Let me give advice

1. Flash will not work on mobs if mobs resisted your blind flash, so wait a couple seconds before you attempt to flash it again, do not flash it immediately because its wasted MP and do not increase enmity.
2. Make sure you are the first one to pull the mobs, its will generate enmity on you better than its aggro by others stupids DD.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altimis

Let me give advice

1. Flash will not work on mobs if mobs resisted your blind flash, so wait a couple seconds before you attempt to flash it again, do not flash it immediately because its wasted MP and do not increase enmity.
2. Make sure you are the first one to pull the mobs, its will generate enmity on you better than its aggro by others stupids DD.

---

Neither of those statements are true. >_>

Dps just needed to slow it down a bit. AK does tend to have well geared people queueing for it. It also has well geared people who want to kill everything as quickly as possible and get annoyed at having to slow down to let the tank get aggro.

If you're sub Relic and your DPS is relic you might have a bit of trouble holding aggro. If that happens you just need to pray to god your dps will change targets before they grab aggro.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PetiteMalFleur

Dps just needed to slow it down a bit. AK does tend to have well geared people queueing for it. It also has well geared people who want to kill everything as quickly as possible and get annoyed at having to slow down to let the tank get aggro.

---

^ This. DPS always gives me problems becuase in the first .0005 seconds of the fight they use their hardest hittting ability and grab 100% of agro. I always warn my groups if they do this they are tanking that mob specifically while i grab the other 2-3/

I feel your pain. I'm a new 50 and my first run of WP had both of my DPS in full DL with relic weapons. It made keeping enmity very...interesting.

Sounds like your DPS are significantly overgeared in comparison to you, which is becoming a common trend since more and more people are working on Coil now.

There are a lot of people who are over geared for AK and run it currently, because they want their Myth tomes.
If you're using il55 or even il60 weapon vs. a DPS using Relic/Relic+1 even if the rest of their gear is similar to yours, odds are they're going to pull hate if they're not watching. There are times there's nothing you can do.

A good example was while tanking Titan HM, the primary healer had relic+1 weapon... she was VERY hard to keep hate off of if she over healed at all, while I was using my Ifrit's Gaxe (Warrior). with 6,500HP I didn't have a problem living through his attacks (and knowing my rotation I could keep buffs up properly to make myself easier to heal), but I spent a lot more time using Butchers Block combo than I would have had to with a different healer, up till she did her first enmity drop and then I didn't have any further problems.

tl;dr... Gear makes a huge impact to enmity generation, it is very hard to tank against people who (severely) out gear you.

the only problem in AK is demon wall,if the dps and healer isn't so great then demon wall will be a problem for you, the other 2 boss's fights are no problem at all

Indeed, I find it annoying how reliant tanks are on a good weapon to generate agro but thats how its designed.
I suggest aiming for your relic, its not hard to get, though a bit time consuming.

If overgearing is a problem, let the DDs handle of the mobs.

For instance, when you fight three Gargoyles (Sleeper something or other), you flash all three, try to keep them on you for awhile, but let one of them go and leave it to the DDs. It shouldn't pose a problem. Losing hate on all three poses a problem.

Learn to mark a target. In AK people tend to throw aoe/dot at the other enemies just to do extra dmg while focusing on your main target. Grab hate then rotate between the enemies to make sure that their threat tables are low. Also if you have a blm (or maybe a whm) they could sleep the others while they attack the marked target. AK is kind-of a tank check because you get alot of adds and your dps loves to do their own thing. I think plds have a little harder time keeping hate in ak due to the fact that flash is their only aoe grabber. So in conclusion:

1. Mark your target. If you're on PS3 set one on your hotbar. You only need one, just mark a target and before it dies switch to another and mark that. It will make a difference.

The rest is up to how well you can maintain the threat tables among the mobs. Good Luck and welcome to AK

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jaminos

So I have tanked successfully Ifrit more times than I care to count. I have had no issues with WP unless the DPS was not on the ball for the second boss. So I figured I would give AK a try. I regret my decision in life about trying that. I could not pull agro off anyone even with a iLvl 55 sword and patchwork gear. Some still my starting artifact armor with a DL belt and iLvl 55 pants and boots.

Is this a DL minimum for tanks or was I just in a pug with people who were over geared for me to tank for successfully?

---

You could not pull aggro off anyone? That's you're first mistake right there, you shouldn't have to pull it off anyone, are the team your playing with running ahead of you and pulling before you get there? If not and you are actually losing aggro mid fight then it is a problem on you're end. Learn you're aggro combos and check your aggro gauge over you're name.

A lot of people in AK are overgeared for it and just there for tomes. Odds are they don't care who the mob is hitting so long as it dies fast and the run goes fast (these people don't care about getting hit so long as they don't die). Think merit parties with no tanks in FFXI. Dead mobs don't hit very hard; hell, there's even a pull on a succubus in there where a geared BRD can outright kill her before she can reach the party. Honestly, if your DPS classes are highly overgeared compared to your tank, if you lose agro on a single mob, it doesn't matter too much. Just try to keep the pack on you. But there's not a whole lot you can do about them pulling mobs on you if you know your rotations and stuff. That's on them to hold back if they want and it's on you to improve gear. That said, I'd start doing primals to get a better weapon.

I mark my targets all the time. By 50, I think every tank should know this. However, I have noticed pugs tend to ignore my marks even after I tell them what the mark means.

Don't worry too much, there's only so much you can do if they severely outgear you so. Chances are if they're in relic/+1, they can probably kill it pretty fast even if its on them. As long as it's not causing wipes or straining the healer too much, it'll be fine. Your biggest priority right now is to get a better weapon! If relic is out of reach, shoot for Ifrit's Blade, it's ilvl 60 and any improvement will serve you well, it can easily last you until you get your relic. You'll gear up soon enough, perks of being tank is that you do so much faster than DPS. GL!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jaminos

I mark my targets all the time. By 50, I think every tank should know this. However, I have noticed pugs tend to ignore my marks even after I tell them what the mark means.

---

Most of these users have run AK so many times that they're dead bored of it, and just want to finish it fast. So they spam AoE's and stuff, or just go for whatever. Or they probably just don't think much of you when you with your iLv55 weapon can't hold aggro against their relic/+1 weapons. For this reason, I usually run with friends who knows how to work with me. It's really not hard to find an AK party once you hit end game, there's usually always some people out there who'll need to run AK anyway.

For what it's worth, if there's a guy whose AoE pulls all the mobs off you, you can try and use Cover on him while he tanks it...short term solution, but better than nothing. Better to have overgeared DPS than undergeared for AK imo.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by rahvinus

I feel your pain. I'm a new 50 and my first run of WP had both of my DPS in full DL with relic weapons. It made keeping enmity very...interesting.

---

Haha, I know what you mean. In one run in another dungeon, I just lost aggro all over the place. Then, one guy in the party said to me "Let me give you some tanking advice: You need to make sure all the mobs have red rectangles !" I just LOL'ed...yeah, thanks for <useless> advice.

I ended up running it with a PUG today. We had a Dragoon with a Relic+1. He ended up tanking more than I did. Thankfully he and the rest of my group were pretty cool. So I ended up getting two ilvl 60 pieces of armor out of it and progression on my relic quest. Just waiting on Hydra now. I had a Paladin in an Ifrit HM tell me to tank because they had better gear to stun with. I only laughed and tanked the boss. I had a better weapon, and better gear than they did. I have some it so many times I didn't even care. Ironically, they ended up missing most of the eruptions anyhow so the group dissolved.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jaminos

I ended up running it with a PUG today. We had a Dragoon with a Relic+1. He ended up tanking more than I did. Thankfully he and the rest of my group were pretty cool. So I ended up getting two ilvl 60 pieces of armor out of it and progression on my relic quest. Just waiting on Hydra now. I had a Paladin in an Ifrit HM tell me to tank because they had better gear to stun with. I only laughed and tanked the boss. I had a better weapon, and better gear than they did. I have some it so many times I didn't even care. Ironically, they ended up missing most of the eruptions anyhow so the group dissolved.

---

Gratz on the AK win. I beat AK with full AF and a LvL 40 weapon and shield. So you can do it under geared as a tank but the tank and healer will be strained and the team needs to play smart. There was an awesome BLM that slept mobs and explained fights. We had a few healers because the healer had to work pretty hard.

Also, the weaker geared tank should stun HM Ifrit because you want the geared tank to be taking the hits. So the Paladin in Ifrit HM you had was right that they had better gear to stun with (even though yours was superior).

Try tabbing through targets after you pull initially and use your single target +enmity combo and flashed a few times, start your combo on one mob, then finish it on mob with next highest hate on pt member that isn't you. That *and* dps really need to stay on marked mob. Ah and use circle of scorn alot too for multiple mobs, don't play pld much but I've seen lvl 50 ones that were pretty good using it, I think it puts dot up too on whatever it hits.

Wrote a 4500 word AK technique compendium.... only to have it limit me to 1000 characters.

/wrists

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zoomie

Wrote a 4500 word AK technique compendium.... only to have it limit me to 1000 characters.

/wrists

---

You can edit your post to get around the 1k character limit. It's silly. >_>

What I recommend is that you get a group (from your server, Free Company, Linkshell) who are familiar with your style and skills. Play AK with them until you are familiar with what is expected. Just try that out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jaminos

So I have tanked successfully Ifrit more times than I care to count. I have had no issues with WP unless the DPS was not on the ball for the second boss. So I figured I would give AK a try. I regret my decision in life about trying that. I could not pull agro off anyone even with a iLvl 55 sword and patchwork gear. Some still my starting artifact armor with a DL belt and iLvl 55 pants and boots.

Is this a DL minimum for tanks or was I just in a pug with people who were over geared for me to tank for successfully?

---

AK is ment for item lvl 50 and 55 gear,its already hard enough to keep agro without being outgeared by your group as well which makes it worse.other than your agro you will find demon wall a pain if your group lacks dps.

Are you having any trouble surviving? Maybe switch your build to 15/15 str/vit or even 30str, and/or use +str jewelry? Just a thought.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jaminos

I noticed most of the people had Ifrit and Varies weapons. But again, I could not even pull a mob off of them with a provoke, flash halone combo. I consider myself a fairly competent tank. But I could not pull agro to save my life. I had depleted my MP and it did little good.

---

provoke just puts you at their threat level+1 enmity, so you need to do a heavy threat move immediately following it. Shield toss or rage of halone (better if you can time it to provoke just before the end of a combo). Fight or flight also helps when doing the halone combo (dunno if it affects flash tho).

As a BLM in Relic +1 and full DL I can say that it is pretty much the way some people have said already. AK is just a mindless grind for me and my goal is to finish it asap. That being said I am very well aware that for new tanks life is quite hard and if there is a new tank who has problems surviving the groups of 3 mobs then I always CC. Better safe than sorry.

On the other hand I care not at all if I personally pull aggro because I know I will kill the mob fast enough for it to not be much of an issue. I would never blame a Tank for losing aggro vs me because I know I do not play with aggro management in mind during that instance. In fact even when I play with my Static group with +1 PLD I still shout out in TS before I do my aoe rotation so he can prepare with some flashes or he will lose aggro as well.

All in all, it's not just you. Hate in this game is everyones responsibility, if someone is impossible to keep hate from then focus on the other mobs instead.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Altimis

Let me give advice

1. Flash will not work on mobs if mobs resisted your blind flash, so wait a couple seconds before you attempt to flash it again, do not flash it immediately because its wasted MP and do not increase enmity.
2. Make sure you are the first one to pull the mobs, its will generate enmity on you better than its aggro by others stupids DD.

---

Neither of these are true as someone has said. Flash does increase enmity as many times as you use it. Only downside is the blind effect (which is a good damage mitigator) will go from 12 - 6 - 3 sec to resist if used repeatedly, so it's kinda situational. I did AK in AF gear plus iLvl 49 weapon, with 0 wipes or threat issues, just have to know when to use cool downs more frequently than you'd prolly like to in standard trash pulls. Shield Bash is your friend once you have aggro, ive even tab targeted shield bash when I was just taking too much dmg. I tend to spam flash for groups of 4 or more. But a good opener that might help you gain threat is Shield Lob - Flight or Fight/Blood Bath- Fast Blade / Circle of Scorn / Spirit within - Flash x2 - finish halone combo. Then just tab target tanking using combo finisher on your main target.

The static group I run with have relic and primal weapons and keeping threat has been a bit difficult at times since I'm still rolling with my WP axe. Just have to be a bit hyper aggresive with the pulls and beat your dps to the punch. Follow it up by doubling the mass emnity generating skills and pray mob #1 is still with you by the time you hit it with the 2nd ability of your main threat combo.

Often, #1 is just about ready to jump to one of the DPS at that point but the mob's HP is usually going down fast enough that I just ignore it and let them finish it off while keeping the other 2-3 mobs under control. If I think the mob might reach the DPS alive, provoke+lob/tomahawk (timed right after I see the DPS do their little jump/flip/dance that indicates the completion of some high dmg move) usually distracts it long enough that it dies on its way back.

As Im almost full DL with Relic (+1 now, but havent ran ak again yet), honestly I sometimes attack anyway even if I get hate. I ran with some good people from my server Mateus. Kept pulling hate off the tank, but I knew my dps and the other dps was good enough to kill adds quickly without any problems, as did the tank. If it's a boss, then yea I'll stop, wait a bit and use quelling strikes. So yea, just gear up more and you should be fine.