I think having instanced dungeons was a good move for ARR overall, but I really do enjoy the open style dungeons and boss raids we had in FFXI. Are there any plans to add these in on top of the current Instance system?
Will There Ever be Open Dungeons?
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10-11-2013, 01:48 AMBalbanesWill There Ever be Open Dungeons?
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10-11-2013, 01:50 AMsquidbunny
I'd be happy with the ability to just physically walk into an instance with 3 people and a chocobo. :/
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10-11-2013, 01:52 AMMegami017
I'm curious as well, would be a nice alternative to 1-2 hour que times for the instanced dungeons.
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10-11-2013, 01:54 AMTupsi
People fought against this because it's "outdated design", so we'll probably get open dungeons in the sense of Brayflox.
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10-11-2013, 01:56 AMRaldo
I'm not really sure what you're looking for. The beastmen strongholds are open-world, though there's little reason to go in them.
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10-11-2013, 02:05 AMYoko_Kurama
To the guy above me, who said I'm not sure what you are looking for, then said there are open world areas but no reason to go to them...bro you just answered your own question. The original poster is looking for dungeons that are meaningful to go to, and where you and however many other people you want to bring with you can come and go as you please.
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10-11-2013, 02:10 AMRyios
They are referring to things like SKY, where it was a zone you go go into. 3 to 20 linkshells (FC's of ffxi) would be in there all fighting over the same 4 or 5 pop trash mobs so they could farm the pop items they needed to spawn the Bosses in the zone. Where you spent hours a day trying to just claim a pop trash mob from another Linkshell. And linkshells actually had people that just wondered out specifically to claim pop trash mobs from other linkshells. You also camped other linkshells on NM's so that if they wiped you could claim it from them.... Same thing on world bosses like fafnir where linkshells would camp in the event the LS that got the claim would wipe. And linkshells would claim stuff, then kite it around the zone while they made phone calls and the rest of their Linkshell logged on etc.
If you like that kind of competition.... But I don't miss it. -
10-11-2013, 02:15 AMFelisSE can easy fix it if they do it like in 1.0Quote:
Originally Posted by Raldo
Just put some chests there and let 3 specific enemies drop the keys to the chests. And of course put some nice stuff in the chests, like lv50 gear and maybe some myth tokens.
The party who claimed the enemy get the key. All other parties can help to kill it faster so the next enemy spawn faster. -
10-11-2013, 02:30 AMRenikYeah wating 40min as DPS to do the same instance over and over, just to find people who will treat you even worse than an rival linkshell would do in ffxi, is 1000 times better than (useful and funny) open world content like dungeons or world bosses.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryios
I was trying to be sarcastic.
I'm waiting for this kind of content, if SE keep releasing just intanced content i will leave soon, you may have some bad memories from FFXI, but there are a lot of FFXI players here, and i'm sure i'm not the only one who feels betrayed by SE for designing this game to be comfortable just for wow ppl. -
10-11-2013, 02:33 AMYucieI agree. Open-world dungeons and zones that are like giant raids that feel perilous, dangerous, and otherwise make me fear for my existence would be lovely again. It doesn't have to be EVERY piece of content.. but a few at least.Quote:
Originally Posted by Renik
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10-11-2013, 02:54 AMNyneAlexander
I can't believe we're 10 posts in and no one has blamed PS3 for restrictions on open world dungeons. This is progress!
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10-11-2013, 03:16 AMYuriRamona
The problem with open-world dungeons is that balancing desirability and incentive with the detriments of abuse and griefing is very difficult. Even now with instanced dungeons we have our hands full with cheaters, griefers, or just overall mean people.
If you look at FATEs (which are most likely to be the dev teams version of "open-world dungeons"), it's all incentive with little opportunity for abuse. Even then, there are still opportunities for players to harm others' experiences (i.e. ending the FATE early and idling at the Aetheryte...)
If you make the open-world dungeon too lucrative, then you have to somehow limit player's abilities to obtain rewards. If you limit player's abilities to obtain rewards, then you create competition. In a competitive atmosphere, players are encouraged to harm others, or at least to not help others. -
10-11-2013, 03:22 AMCaselia
It's not happening. People were already pissed when Yoshida announced to remove it and because of maps being much smaller when redesigned they were removed, so don't plan on seeing them again.
Oh yes, his reasons were to take the open world dungeons and make them into an instanced dungeon to be more unique and colorful instead of the copy/paste we had in 1.0.
And strongholds are not dungeons. -
10-11-2013, 03:29 AMRenikYou said it, it's very difficult, that's why SE has professionals working on this game, they have to find a solution, also, the DF is even worse than open world content regarding harassment or lack of help.Quote:
Originally Posted by YuriRamona
The only reason they had to make verything instanced (as well as lineal gear progression and lack of customization) is becasue it's very easy to balance and they were too short on time, dev testing and blancing can take over a year for a game with full open world content and gear and class customization.
Now the have released the game, they have the money, it's time to fix the game. -
10-11-2013, 03:33 AMRyuujin
An open world dungeon can be exploited.
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10-11-2013, 03:41 AMDhex
How to implement this type of content:
Minfilia calls you to the Waking Sands and asks you to collect an item from Titan/Garuda/Ifrit. Once these key items are gathered you are granted access to a new end game region.
Or via a new storyline.
This is a small simple example; it would need to be much larger in scale and depth if SE were to implement something similar.
New endgame region has 3 zones - one open zone roughly the size of Eastern Thanalan, one open zone the size of Old Gridania, one instanced battlefield.
Zone #1 (Large) Open Area - Obtain a Aetherial Indicator for your 24-man group from Y'da for 240,000g to gain access to up to 12 Aetherial NMs (locked by group similar to Leve/Duty mobs; this content will require 24 people)
NOTE: This area does have dangerous normal monsters, and weaker NMS that can be popped using Grand Company "hunt leves", watch out for traps, and treasure chests for those groups that cannot organize 24 people. (4-8 man content)
3 paths 4 NMs each - 1 path drops tank gear, 1 path drops healer gear, 1 path drops dps gear (ilv60~70)
Defeating a path grants 1 key item. 3 key items are required to enter Zone #2.
Zone #2 (Medium) Open Area
3 HNM bosses - each boss consumes a key item.
One boss drops weapons, one boss drops gear, one boss drops accessories (ilv70~80).
Defeating all 3 bosses grants a key item "Seal" used to enter Zone #3
Zone #3 (Small) Instanced Battle Field
Final Boss - drops materials that craft into a special gear pieces (crafted item ~il100)
There is a 2 day cooldown between Aetherial Indicator purchases, the price is high to make it so that people need to split the cost across all 24 people and be invested. You can take as long as you like on the 12 NMs, 3 bosses, Final boss - but the 2 day cooldown prevents you groups from rushing.
The first two zones are large and open (Aetherial hotspot where NMs pop will move around to give people space see Voidwalker NMs in FFXI) so people and enter at leisure and complete the content at their leisure - the NMs/HNMs/Hunt NMs are locked/protected the same as a Duty/Leve to prevent stealing/griefing. This is quite simply content that is mirroring FFXI's Sky/Sea/Abyssea with XIV flavor.
Obviously - No Duty Finder.
Maybe in an expansion. Ala Mhigo?
Edit: I know Crystal Tower is coming but - it's really not the same thing from the way devs have talked about it.... who knows! Right now there is very little incentive to invest in your FC and the group you play with from a game mechanic standpoint - and the community shows this deficiency in the overall conduct of some players in Duty Finder and elsewhere.
I hope they can take a leaf out of their own book when expanding later content! -
10-11-2013, 03:56 AMRenikNice idea, but it's still instanced and limited content, nothing to do with open world content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dhex
If you set a time limit and a party requirement it's not open world.
It would be more like a big area where everyone can enter, but it's plagued with dangerous high lvl mosters and every boss have to be poped, trading a item droped from those high lvl monsters, once you defeat the poped boss you can keep advancing in the dungeon, after deafeating all the bosses you get all the items to pop the megaboss and get the reward.
that's open world, no DF allowed, free pty built, you can go with 24man or try to solo it, you can even go inside and maybe find a group doing it that will invite you. -
10-11-2013, 04:15 AMRisaeMEMORY LIMITATIONS!Quote:
Originally Posted by squidbunny
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10-11-2013, 02:09 PMBalbanesSore about Sky, huh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryios
No, that's not what I was specifically talking about, but that's the general basic idea for endgame type raids in an open fashion.
However, I was really meaning things along the lines of Quicksand Caves, Castle Oztroja, The Boyahda Tree. But yeah, also stuff for Endgame too. -
10-11-2013, 02:20 PMArriverderciA lot of things in this game is dated, combat is super dated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tupsi
Bad excuse. This would be a real fun idea.
Helps knock-out those nasty que times we all be havin'. -
10-11-2013, 03:07 PMJynx
It's all about balance, instanced content is great and has it's place, but not for the majority of EVERYTHING in the game.
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10-14-2013, 01:22 AMBalbanesAgreed. Sometimes I want to just run through a dungeon without having to queue up for ridiculous amounts of time, and explore/farm it at my leisure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynx
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10-20-2013, 04:55 AMBalbanes
Buuuuump.
A response from a CM would be nice... even if the answer is no or "we'll look into it". -
10-20-2013, 05:56 AMPhaylis
They should implement a FC leve were you go in with 8 or 24 people from your FC in a certain area for a open world raid like event. This would have to be implemented like dynamis in FFXI, not like current leves otherwise you would have too much going on, but that could work.
Have like a 120 min time frame to clear an area with random chest pops and gear or token drops and have like a 3 day lockout. This would allow people to be in the zone and do normal stuff and not get in the way. Southern Thanalas in the open desert area would be great for event like this.
There are several zones that there are little to know quest and would be good to add some life to these zones. -
10-21-2013, 04:14 AMMaxthunder
Open world area's should also provide a challenge as well as danager. Currently we have the power puff girls (players) with nothing that poses any type of threat or danger.
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10-21-2013, 04:58 AMDamie
I swear I remember Yoshi-P saying something about this being a possibility. Like Castrum novum Could make a come back with lvl 90 mobs or something that would make it tough to move around in that zone.
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10-21-2013, 05:06 AMBalbanesWas it in a letter? I think those are all archived and could be looked up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Damie
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10-21-2013, 05:12 AMShindaUsagiIn another forum I brought up the idea of open world party quests. Quests that don't require a party to activate but does require a party to accomplish. You and fellow adventurers could then traipse the familiar countryside together to accomplish said goals. Major confrontations could be locked to the party much like leves. I yearn for some serious open world content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Damie
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10-21-2013, 05:37 AMDrakzen1
Its funny to me that this game seems to have so many conflicting idea.
You give people wonderful chocobos only to fight trash mobs that can easily be soloed.
You give the endgame raid but the rewards are the equivalent of what can be obtained from dungeons.
You tell people to spend time crafting/gathering/fishing but make then make there usefulness very minor.
You get ride of open world nm's and dungeons for a fate system nms that are barely visiable and rewards are rather pointless(i have odin set and beh set)
Your next update has crystal towers but its ment to gear up for coil...but people are already getting almost full sets from coil?
Does anyone else see the backward's design here? -
10-21-2013, 07:32 AMMalamasala
I don't see the point. It will all just boil down to Dragon's Aery, with 120 people standing in a room 3 hours spamming their skills.
Except with FF14 2.0 system it will be the party that deals the most damage and not the one that claims it that gets the loot. So it will be all about going there with a full party of melee zergers, and then go all out while another alliance is tanking it. Said alliance can then try and losen hate so they MPK the other zergers. And it all sounds absolutely fantastic and something the game really needs.
I don't know why you even want something that only causes hate and drama. Can't we just make "insult thursday" a thing or something and we all yell insults at each other without the developers adding unnecessary content to do so? -
10-21-2013, 07:42 AMDuuude007Just to clarify, by open dungeons you mean what the Beastman strongholds used to be in 1.0? High level areas any number of people can go in together in or out of party?Quote:
Originally Posted by Balbanes
If not, please elaborate. -
10-21-2013, 08:44 AMroohan
I don't really want the competition from FFXI back. It was one of the most frustrating endgame content FFXI had. Only a few people who had lots of time to camp stuff did get something out of it. Sure there could be implemented something like this, but I think SE shouldn't focus on it. The only positive thing this content added to FFXI was the stronger bond in the community. You couldn't go there and do it on your own. This is something the FFXIV team needs to work on. It's much better to go through content with your LS mates instead of random people. But with the duty finder people don't really start to play together. On a side note, I'm missing some underground areas in FFXIV at the moment. All these instanced dungeon are cool places. But you only get to see them when you party with other people there.
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10-22-2013, 08:27 AMBalbanesI find it very sad that this is your only experience with real dungeons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malamasala
This type of thing, by the way, is a player made problem. While I do think we need to add end-game open dungeons too, I want dungeons players can group up and level through.
In terms of FFXI, think things like the Boyahda Tree... Quicksand Caves... Castle Oztroja, etc etc. Or, I guess we could just keep on the whole FATE FATE FATE FATE FATE ding50! line of thinking. I know I am looking forward to it! :rolleyes: -
10-23-2013, 01:57 AMBalbanesActually more along the lines of the Beastmen Strongholds from FFXI. And what's up Duuude :D But yeah, that type of thing. Just more open content to do without a queue'd instance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duuude007
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10-23-2013, 02:01 AMJamez82
It's odd how making things less realistic in a supposed virtual world is considered better design.
People are weird. -
10-23-2013, 02:09 AMNaharaIf memory serves, SE is trying to specifically NOT do this. It was a major headache in XI and it would be a major headache in XIV. I don't miss it and don't want it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryios
The ONLY way I could see something like this working is if it's like a giant FATE or series of FATEs that lots of people could participate in and get equal rewards from. But then you'd probably have the same problem as the Odin and Behemoth FATEs: too many people making too much lag.