If I was given the money, the team, and had to gamble...

I would of done ... FFXI ( lv75 cap era ) - I would of re-mastered. Period.

It all worked. Camping NM's - eventually rewarding, unique rare items, fun extreme rare items ( Kraken Club ), fun items (Ridill, Joy-toy etc). Variety of decent equipment. Crafting Armour was also useful!!!

Accomplishments, raging from easy to extreme.
Crafting worked. It paid off.
Auction House. It worked.
Fun story line / fights.
Fishing: Was fun - Fishing Devil manta for angel skin, yum.
No stupid retard vanity transports.
Items were job relevant and fun, with stats that made you go :o... I want that ( Getting that Black belt for a monk? wicked )
Experience parties (Might have lowered the requirement and speed of leveling easier).
Open world Notorious monsters - Server competition. Rewards.
Combat: Getting the Armour made a significant difference. Worked. Maybe adjust speed but damn I preferred it.
Punishment for being retarded : Sneak / Invis
That element of danger from other monsters. They could that level of danger or excitement to the game!.

The hidden secrets / strategies etc that went into the game that S.E. wanted us to find / figure out.

I'd of had to hardly change anything, expect a few systems here and there to align with current trends. Old is where it's at.

I'm just an old-school guy, wishing times didn't change I guess.

It would fail because people these days wont play a game with that kind of slow leveling, not to mention that boring combat.

I enjoyed FFXI back in the day, but its 2013 dude.

Yea those times were fun back then, I remember *Cheers*.

I know the saying "This is FFXIV not FFXI" is getting quite boring and used more then a 125lbs geek saying "U mad brah" in MMO's

But I think they doing a pretty good thing with FFXIV (Think holistic) so I think they'll introduce some of the suggestions in the near future. (Hopefully NM camping lol)

I just got Deja Vu of the threads on SWTOR about rebuilding Star Wards Galaxy Pre-CU changes. The funny part is that they actually did that, and as expected, no one really cared.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SolviteSekai

It would fail because people these days wont play a game with that kind of slow leveling, not to mention that boring combat.

I enjoyed FFXI back in the day, but its 2013 dude.

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I believe there are enough people that don't mind extreme grind. Think about upcoming ArchAge, korean beta was tried out by many hardcore mmo gamers from around the world and is highly anticipated. Of course the playerbase probably will not be as high as more casual mmos, but it will find its market.

I get nostalgic for FFXI since it was my first MMO and it took up the better part of 7 years for me, but really, it was a massive grind-fest.

Also keep in mind that it took a terribly long time for FFXI to change many things and add enough content to get it to where it was/is. I'm willing to be patient with FFXIV for a while because of that. Hopefully they'll be able to apply the lessons learned in FFXI as time went on, but I do agree that nothing has captured the magic of finally conquering the airship battle in CoP, yet. Not even a Titan HM win.

Uh...OP, I believe you can still play FFXI if you want :/

I think that in 2013 a game like that would not be very well accepted by the critics AND the majority of the players, to be honest.

Also, what do "I would of done", "I would of re-mastered" and "I'd of had" mean?

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

Also, what does "I would of done", "I would of re-mastered" and "I'd of had" mean?

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It's just an improper sounding out of the spoken "would've" which would be "would have."

This may sound out of topic.

But taking the money and running away taking a gamble they will not find you be an acceptable option?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Monkor

It's just an improper sounding out of the spoken "would've" which would be "would have."

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Oh.

I see - didn't know that.

Sorry for the OT :P

Kings and a lot of the overworld NMs were a terrible idea, in my opinion. I'm always surprised when people look back on them fondly, because most people I know found them boring and tedious (not to mention sometimes immensely frustrating thanks to bots and That One LS full of jackasses). And because sitting in town for hours attempting to get a party/find a tank and healer to make a party to level and coming up empty-handed was so much fun.

But seriously, I mostly enjoyed FFXI back in the day (trying not to look at things with rose-colored nostalgia)... but I think that day is done. There just isn't as much of a niche for the punishing, extremely grind-y games anymore. Thinking back on it, some of the most dedicated, hardcore types I played with.. work full time jobs now, have families to spend time with, other responsibilities, etc. They simply don't have the time or drive for a game like old school XI, and I think that's a trend with most MMO players as a whole.

While I have really enjoyed ffxi for a long time, including the HNM era, I do not long to go back to those days.
If you wanted to be at the top of the game back then you pretty much were required you to play between 5 to 9 hours a day, sometimes wake up at really wonky hours if you wanted to have a shot at everything and the progress was slow, so darn slow...

While it was manageable in my 20's when I played XI most acively, I am now in my 30's, have a carreer and several other hobbies so I long for something at a lower pace while still being able to stay on top of the game without resorting to long or weird playtimes and XIV does offer that to me right now.

I just hope that Mr. Yoshida doesn't make the same mistake his colleague Mr. Matsui made by making nearly all old content and gear completely irrelevant and removing every motivation to start a long term project (REM) in a single update.

You guys are pin-pointing on two aspects of FF11. Grinding and HNMS.

However, you aren't looking at the many positives:

A decent Auction House system.

Items that had decent stat allocations: Why can't my Monks AF+1 body have: e.g. "Enhances the effect Greased Lightning" - Exciting, useful stats.

Weaponskills: Fun system - Relics should offer something unique! It's all boring, plain stats.

Crafting: It was stronger compared to now. Genie Weskit - useful, Dusk Gloves - Useful etc.

Fishing: It was useful and worked. You could earn some cash injection from Angel Skins.


A lot has me thinking this is all restrictive, plain and boring because they are afraid of RMT.

I don't want stupid vanity player housing, they wasted dev time and money on this.. seriously? ... I want things that work, and work well.

Leveling and HNMs were pretty major parts of the early game and what you spent the vast majority of your time doing, so you can't really blame us for focusing on them.

Different people enjoy different things. I find XIV's crafting so much more involved and fun than XI's ever was (there was only ever a handful of things worth crafting for each craft in XI, and as the game progressed, those became less and less relevant) - not to mention how nice it is to be able to level more than one craft! - and "stupid vanity player housing" is one of the things I'm really looking forward to for XIV.

Fishing in XI didn't really become a truly useful thing until Hakuryu, and to a lesser degree, Talacca Cove (and that was mostly for the bots). Fishing up the Manta required no fishing skill, and wasn't really "fishing" in the sense of.. going after actual fish.

I will agree with you on the stats, though. They're very linear, but I guess it's an intended 180 from XI/1.xx, where you could have a relatively low level item that had stats superior to much higher level things because higher level gear didn't offer the stats you needed. I would definitely like to see some unique stats on job-specific gear.

So basically FFXI was a great game after a couple of expansions and 1-3 years of updates. (depending on your view).
Yes I played FFXI and enjoyed it for the around 7 years I played it.
Rise of Zilart was the 1st expansion and released around the time of the US release.
Chains of Promathia was another year later, that is when things started to really open up and what most people remember as FFXI (That is also when many of the major nms you remember came about).
The Expansion that caused things to really take off was Treasures of Aht Urhgan which came out 3 years after the initial release.

Nothing against anyone but 12+ hour respawn windows (even after waiting a day for that window to open which you had to know). Link shells would litterally have to get people to sit in places for hours or days to watch for a pop then everyone rush out there from that LS and keep it quiet. Then there were the botter LS that would autoclaim the mob regardless of who hit it. No thanks. It took me a month of multiple hours of camping and some luck to even get trotter boots. Now that I am older with a family I can't spend that kind of time at the game.

After 2-3 years of updates (expect possibly 1 expansion and about 4 updates a year) then come back and tell me if this game made the right choices.
This game has only been out for a little over a month, it was a complete revamp of a failed game in less than 1 year. I would have to say I am quite impressed.
I also enjoy this game and it works great with my schedule.

There are of course things I would like to see improve or change and I am sure much of it will.

no thanks, don't want any of that.

Almost all of FFXI's design was built around the concept of XP loss on death.

Dying was painful. So enemies were more scary, sneak/invis useful, endgame strategy different.

FFXIV you can die 30x on one 80min Titan instance and suffer practically no penalty. Everything is easy mode because death doesn't matter.

But do you really want to go back to that?

There is really a fundamental issue with this idea, and those like it, that has nothing to do with whether FFXI was a good/better game or not. I was an extremely long time FFXI player; though I played it.... I don't want to say casually, but not with an eye for end game. That being said, let us work through what would have happened - theoretically - if FFXIV was a remastered version of FFXI.

A lot of current FFXI players would have switched from FFXI to FFXIV. Meanwhile, best case, many of the ex-FFXI veterans would have joined up for the nostalgia. It may have snagged a few new players, but let's face it, the people who never played FFXI don't want to play FFXI refurbished or otherwise. Assuming that it gained a 100% resubscription rate, many reports put FFXI's max population around 500,000 to 700,000. Right now, somewhere around 250,000 of those still play FFXI, if most reports are to be believed. That's a between 250,000 and 450,000 bump in subscriptions, since many of them would just be migrations from FFXI. Even assuming another 100,000 to 300,000 tried the game out because it was "new", that's only slightly above SE's target stable population - theorized to be somewhere around 500,000 month-to-month subscriptions.

Retention rates are never 100% though, closer to 50%, that puts FFXIV: FFXI Edition optimistically around the 400,000 level (100,000 below SE's target numbers). Now, these numbers are, for the most parts, estimations, but they hold up to reason.

So while making FFXIV: FFXI Edition would have made an - admittedly substantial - core group of players happy, it would not have been anywhere close to economically viable.

Accomplishments, raging from easy to extreme. > OK

Crafting worked. It paid off. > IT sucked , wasnt fun , wasnt engaging ,was just a mesh , breaking materials and crystals for no reason other than "luck"

Auction House. It worked. > and FFXIV dont?

Fun story line / fights. > OK

Fishing: Was fun - Fishing Devil manta for angel skin, yum. > bah never liked fishing

No stupid retard vanity transports. > whats wrong with mounts?

Items were job relevant and fun, with stats that made you go ... I want that > items that made your char OP or else worthless? no thx , buyt enhanced skills were fun.
Ninja AF2 gloves .....+ Af3 boots

Experience parties (Might have lowered the requirement and speed of leveling easier). > OK

Open world Notorious monsters - Server competition. Rewards. > NO THANKS, if endgame isnt instanced = FAIL (claimbots , camping ....)

Punishment for being retarded : Sneak / Invis > True sneak True Sight mobs that can 1 shot u...say HI!

That element of danger from other monsters. They could that level of danger or excitement to the game!. > getting killed near the zone u want to go or in the middle of 30 mobs w/o no option for tractor or raise , because losing exp wasnt enough u had to travel the whole world upside / down again

Everything comes back again.

There will be a time when people will want to grind mobs with friend and stuff we just currently aren't there yet, give it another 3-7 years of mmos

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jackl3

You guys are pin-pointing on two aspects of FF11. Grinding and HNMS.
A decent Auction House system.

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FFXI Auction House System:

You can only sell things in stacks of 1, 12 or 99 (........)

The prices of incredibly rare gear NEVER fluctuates because there's a built in history of what the item has sold for in the past.

There is no way to search for an item via text entry

It took days for the auction house to load.

The buyer had to pay to put items up for sale, even if the item didn't sell (I would sell a stack of Fire Crystals for 2100gil and I would be charged a 400 gil tax fee?)

The items went to your delivery box instead of going straight into your inventory (what is the logic behind this?)

Oh, and let's not forget the guessing game of the auction house. You can't actually see what people have listed their item for. How archaic is that?

Someone's wearing nostalgia glasses.

What the OP is driving at is what I label "MMO Stockholm Syndrome." It results from people who spent years convincing themselves that x, y or z game feature was really fun, simply because they had to do it a lot. Stated another way, they came to see flaws in the game as features because they were so codependent on playing the game that they had to find a way to reconcile its flaws in order to remain intellectually stable with playing the game in general.

End result is that OP, and those calling for the same inane crap, are people who haven't moved on because they're emotionally and intellectually incapable of overcoming their former paradigm. For this reason they're completely incapable of seeing reason and reality of just how poorly such a game would be recieved and how unlikely its success would be.

Build TP...build TP...build TP...build TP...build TP...wait...wait...wait...WEAPONSKILL! YEAH! I DID SOMETHING!

Build TP...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jackl3

Stuff.

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Just go play xi if that's what you want.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Keres

Build METER...build METER..build METER..build METER...build METER..wait...wait...wait...LIMIT BREAK! YEAH! I (or someone else) DID SOMETHING!

Build METER...

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Fixed.

Ok, I'm joking... a little.

The point is, FFXI had a baseline of auto-attack+other skills which build to unleash very damaging WS which then combo into Skillchains and finally Magic Bursts. Party coordination was rewarded well in FFXI.

FFXIV has a baseline of weapon skill combos which are more active and intricate, but are effectively FFXI's auto-attack in the amount of damage they do. These build the LIMIT BREAK meter... which only one person can use, and typically only during boss fights.

FFXIV has more combat options for sure, but once you get optimal rotations down, it's really just flashy auto-attack that requires player input.


I'm not saying one is better than the other, but both systems actually have similar levels of engagement.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SolviteSekai

It would fail because people these days wont play a game with that kind of slow leveling, not to mention that boring combat.

I enjoyed FFXI back in the day, but its 2013 dude.

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Leveling is completely different in XI now. You can easily level up to 60ish+ in just a few days. 75 within a week or even higher. With book page exp and Abysea alliance grinds its a totally different leveling game. Leveling in XI is now faster than leveling in XIV

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

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As a monk in ff11 all you had was auto attacks and your ws boost before a ws to get more dmg and use focus vs my monk in ff14 were I have to use Internal Release/blood for blood/Dragon Kick then Bootshine into Twin Snakes into Demolish with Touch of Death then if I have the spell speed I could use Bootshine into True Strike into Snap Punch then do that over and over again keeping dots on the target at all times and while moving to get max dmg

are you going to tell me that my monk in 11 did the same work as my monk in 14 does?

I liked XI in many ways. The difficulty was fun. The endless grind was not. The constant waiting just to get a party of 6 was not fun. Getting enough people to do anything that took more than 6 people become so serious due to it being difficult that is spoiled the fun. I enjoyed leveling BST solo in the end. Only to find out that BST in end game was mainly crowd control and usually ended up with me having to constantly go back to leveling to regain lost XP.

FFXI did have it's fun points. It was however mainly a pain in the rear.

FFXIV ARR could use some more difficulty but imo that is about all it needs. That and more content but that will come with patches and expansions

Quote:

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Originally Posted by deathsite

As a monk in ff11 all you had was auto attacks and your ws boost before a ws to get more dmg and use focus vs my monk in ff14 were I have to use Internal Release/blood for blood/Dragon Kick then Bootshine into Twin Snakes into Demolish with Touch of Death then if I have the spell speed I could use Bootshine into True Strike into Snap Punch then do that over and over again keeping dots on the target at all times and while moving to get max dmg

are you going to tell me that my monk in 11 did the same work as my monk in 14 does?

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We always joked about 'AFK MNK' in FFXI, so I'll cut an exception for that one.

But jobs like THF, RDM, NIN, WHM, BLM, SAM, RNG, etc had nearly the same (endgame) engagement factor that this game has. It just feels different because FFXI had a different baseline with auto-attack and single-enemy focus. If you screwed up in FFXI, your party wiped -- even on trash mobs.


The fact is that even the slew of abilities that MNK has in FFXIV can be reduced to a few optimal rotation macros.. which, in turn, makes it effectively equivalent to FFXI's auto-attack.


It's really the illusion of choice -- You can do the most damage possible by triggering the preset abilities in order, or you can just ignore it -- but most people feel like they are more engaged and active, so I guess it works - for now.


**DISCLAIMER: I'm talking about FFXI pre-abyssea. It was a different game then. **

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SolviteSekai

It would fail because people these days wont play a game with that kind of slow leveling, not to mention that boring combat.

I enjoyed FFXI back in the day, but its 2013 dude.

---

Agreed. What we need now is another Copy > Paste Next Gen MMO WoWclone with as little uniqueness as possible, and lets make sure items are as boring and uninteresting as humanly possible, and the Open world has 0 reason to be explored at all so its just a large, empty, useless filler space you run through on Auto-pilot from Exclamation point to Check point.

Cause we all know from experience trying to clone a game to win that games playerbase works perfectly every time.

Oh, those countless Call of Duty/iOS/etc clones that tried to profit off their respective Popular games Fanbases that failed miserably leading to dozens of gaming companies either failing or being bought out due to loss of revenue? Nah, ignore those, Lets keep trying to Clone a game and get that crowd of players on ours. No way this will backfire.

........ Seriously though, I wonder if people listen to themselves, companies included. Can take a page from Capcom and enjoy their large failures over and over. If people wanted a WoWclone, frankly they'd play WoW. Time has shown us that games that offer a new experience generally sell the best unless its an already established IP. Saints Row learned this when it moved on to 3/4. it was essentially a GTA clone in SR1/2 (and while i personally preferred Saints Row over the mess of GTA4, It was still a clone more or less).

When Saint's Row 3 came about, they took a different approach. Walked away from the more serious deeper town and moved into a full blown satirical comedy fest. Personally I liked the Mix of Serious/Comedy of 2 better but It broke from the GTAclone Mold into something unique, and it sells well. but even that game can't compete with the original, and GTA5 proves this.

On the flip side you can look at Resident Evil, a series that sold well up until about RE5 when Capcom decided it was going to try to make it a Third Person shooter and less Survival Horror. Then came Resident Evil 6, which almost every can agree just become a frigging Action-Shooter and it failed miserably. Capcom also brought us epic failures like DMC. Two games that started as one thing and sold well, then strayed form the path to encompass a broader range of playrs aaaannnddd...? FAILED. So the message comes off pretty nicely here, when you break from what makes the series good and try to copy others just so you can appeal to that crowd, You almost always lose. Also Dead Space 3...

What I'm getting at is, This MMO needs to be more unique, There's already an established MMO that has this model, its Wow, and no matter how hard SE Tries, it will never take WoWs fanbase... So While I absolutely would not bring back sh*t like ground kings... FFXIV is in painful need of something that seperates if from games like GW2, which offer more content and are FREE. Square Enix/Final Fantasy White Knights are only going to make up so much of a popuation, so if FFXIV wants to last at all, It needs to become worth the 15$ a month or so its costing us... and Copy>Pasting every popular MMO idea in the last 5 years (and leaving out some of the great ones from FFXI mind you...) Is only going to be appealing for a small time, even to people who enjoy those things... Because at the end of the day its all be done before, sometimes better.

We don't need a FFXI port, especially not one from a Nostalgia Goggle of 75 cap era bullsh*t. But say what you will about FFXI but it had a lot of good ideas but just couldn't implement them cause of the technology of the game or poor foresight. FFXIV should not have this problem.

My dream of FFXIV is really giving us more "Diablo II" feeling in gear, and less "Diablo 3"... While theres a lot of other things i think they should have borrowed from XI when they were shopping for stuff to Copy>Paste from MMOs... Gear is the biggest thing for me, and I feel like I.lv just doesn't do it for me. Even Materia feels pointlessly boring.

Edit: And with it all said it done. I don't dislike FFXIV... I just felt like I've played it before. in Guild Wars 2.. Except GW2 was free. I want FFXIV to be an amazing game, I just don't see it standing up to any test of time when all its best features are just borrowed ideas almost directly copy and pasted except a bit more poorly implemented... I know the games new so i'm not bashing it too hard. But I just hope it picks up and develops its own style in the upcoming year.

I loved FFXI, had every class at 99, and can say it's improved a lot over time. That said, I enjoy the differences FFXIV offers and have no desire to move back to early FFXI's sadistic idea of an MMO.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

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Thf
Sneak attack go behide mob hit it if you have a tank that likes you trick attack aswell then ws that everything thf would use in combat
Rdm
haste as many people as you could, refresh you and mages, heal
Blm
Hit most powerful nuke on monster, ele seal if you wanted more dmg or use it to make sure you sleep adds maybe stun
Nin provoke, ws, maybe the ni spells that did dmg, use Utsusemi: Ichi/Ni when they were about to drop or be taken off

and people would mess up all the time in my partys noone would wipe from it ff14 just have more skills you have to use and more things you need to watch out for in 11 all you did as a dd would be stand still and ws every 100 tp

also about the macros I could do the same in 11 as I can in 14 so i don't see your point there also from someone who played 11 when it was 75 cap

Just don't use macros in XIV? I know that on my BRD I could create 1-3 macros that would literally do everything for me, but where's the fun in that?

This game is a copy of a lot of different MMO's and I personally don't like that at all but it is early days. There is very little content in the game at the moment and you can't compare a 5 week old game with any that have been around for years. I agree completely that this game is not amazing just yet but it has a good base to work with and hopefully they'll start taking good points from XI.

Honestly, I think the community is making this game worse than it is with the constant need to rush everything, but the game caters to rushing content. XI was never catered to that and rather to prolonging content. The problem is I don't think the XIV team intended it to be rushed but by copying a lot from modern MMO's naturally it's become like that. It'll probably take a lot of time and undoubtedly won't happen before the first expansion but I think this game could be as good as XI.

They've already started to adopt the same mechanics as XI had in content like Coils, but there's not enough out yet to really explore that. Put this game along side XI and think about it, we're at a 50 cap. In retrospect at level 50 in XI there is very little and is mainly centred around the nation story, pre-zilart and is pretty damn boring to be honest! It's going to take time but like I say, there is potential.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...8nfEdo59I#t=88 and if the time stamp didn't work go to 1:28

i loved ffxi. but if this game is anywhere even near what ffxi was i wouldnt be playing it. i enjoy being able to play just 60 to 90 min a day anf still get somewhere...

HNM didn't work, not in any way at all.

And since that was the heart of 75 endgame, "it" didn't work.

First, the answer was to cheat, to bot, because at least one other group there was going to bot.

Second, watching, hoping people would die, subtly trying to cause it, yeah that didn't work either.

Dynamis worked okay, and so did most events.

Crafting didn't work, crafting was controlled by the high level crafters. The only way to get into crafting later in the game was either buy gil, get lucky on a drop and invest it (speed belt, a bonanza drop, kclub--only kclub/bonanza really had the chance to buy you a craft), or an absurd single-minded dedication to all your money going to the craft, hoping to muscle through overpriced mats priced at a point to make you want to not craft.

Crafting works here.

Fishing was too easy botted, and most people did, especially since bots could detect, 100%, what was on the other end of the line.

Transportation in XI was fine, except that you couldn't summon your mount, except via a charge from your choco whistle and not in most areas.

You're right, combat was better. Idk, I wouldn't call the pace slower, it was just different. You had a second to calculate the best option and go with that.

I miss blood agro, could give or take the rest.