Story Dungeon Incentives & Endgame Grind

Hello All.

I have decided to make a post to try and highlight a possible fix for 2 current issues effecting the player community as a whole.

Issue #1: Long wait times on earlier story quest dungeons and incompetent groups, causing newer players and players still leveling to become stuck on the quest. (This problem will get increasingly worse as more reach level cap).

Issue #2: Lack of end game variety. Currently we only have 2 dungeons viable for farming end game tokens. Causing a 35 hour+ grind of the same 2 dungeons (Amdapor keep and Castrum Meridianum).

These issues have been bought up repeatedly, with varying opinions and idea's to fix one or the other.

Currently, there is no incentive for players who have reached level 50 to go back and do dungeons (even when leveling a new class) as they are bad EXP and the gear rewards are meaningless, as everyone levels via FATE's which do not require gear.

This, in my opinion (others may not agree) is the best solution to both problems.

Fix: Once a player has reached level 50 on one class, All story quest dungeons will now provide 100 Tomes of Philosophy upon completion. (Reactive to new 2nd tier currency in the future).

Why you ask?

CM and AK on average 30-40 minutes to complete per run via the duty finder, depending on the gear of the group. Neither dungeon provide much, if any challenge for most players.

Now since the majority of earlier story dungeons take a similar amount of time to complete, with a similar level of skill needed, why not give players an incentive to go back and do them with new players?

Same time spend, similar amount of skill as CM, with the same reward received.

Because of level sync, we would be bound by the lower level dungeons level and gear limits, meaning we would have to clear them and do the mechanics just as we did while leveling.

This would give level 50 players the variety they are asking for, without having to create and spend development time and money on new dungeons or 'hard modes' for level 50. While at the same time ensuring new and lower level players are provided with the players needed to complete the story now and into the future.

Like the post if you would like this idea to make it to the Dev team to give us more to do once we hit 50.

To be clear, Tomes of Mythology should *not* be available this way and should only be obtainable via hard modes and level 50's harder dungeons (AK+++).

Thoughts and comments?

Wrong section? Or did i need to be a troll to have a discussion on this board..

Yeah, making it to where all story dungeons give philosophy tomes would be a terrible idea. 100 tomes for Totorak would be way too easy.

Exp just needs to be adjusted so using dungeons as a leveling source would be as effective, if not more, as FATEs.

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Originally Posted by SecondNature

Once a player has reached level 50 on one class, All story quest dungeons will now provide 100 Tomes of Philosophy upon completion.

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Er, 1 HUNDRED tomes for speed-running through Sastasha?

Really?

Not going to happen.

Your comment about syncing meaning you still have to run it as it is 'on level' overlooks the fact that the early dungeons are trivially easy once you've run then a couple of times even in level 1 gear; they're designed to be.

Not until you get to Haukke Manor does the difficulty rise much above easy.

I note you also don't factor in the requirement that ANY noob is being helped at all, so 4 x 50 speed-running Sastasha while watching a movie is what you're asking for it seems. As it stands, you proposal is extremely unlikely to help those you are saying you want to help.

Forced-grouping for core progression ALWAYS has this problem.

Or they just increase dungeon exp rewards to that of fate levelling, then add new dungeons in 2.1 and 2.2. Adding further hard mode dungeons will make it better too.

Which is what they're doing, hopefully in 3-4 weeks time :-)

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Originally Posted by Kraggy

Er, 1 HUNDRED tomes for speed-running through Sastasha?

Really?

Not going to happen.

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Well it could be less tomes, then. Instead of just out right stomping on an idea because you didn't like one part of it, give alternatives.

100 tomes?
it's highly exploitable
people will find the fastest dungeon and spam it anyway and the other story dungeons will be deserted like always
nothing changed

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Originally Posted by texhnolyze

100 tomes?
it's highly exploitable
people will find the fastest dungeon and spam it anyway and the other story dungeons will be deserted like always
nothing changed

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unless they made it so running the same dungeon within a certain period of time gives less tomes, this would literally force people to run different dungeons if they insist on spamming.

The community at lvl 50 is horrible for those who want to do the story... Please keep in mind that the under lvl 50 everything is alright for dungeon . Putting tome on lvl 47 and under dungeon would made people who want to learn from dungeon feel sorry ...

Solution (Which they're kind of doing): 'Random' queue button. Can only use it solo (so no pre made groups) and it throws you in a random dungeon of any level. Rewards tomes upon completion

Any complaints?

I like the idea presented as I enjoy helping free company members, linkshell members, random people shouting on various tasks. Likewise it seems more purposeful to do that than the alternative which we are seeing.

Mario the beast men have gathered even more crystals you must kill the primals which you already killed... again.

Or the hard mode version of dungeons...

Mario you killed the giants trying to escape the mines, but now their cousins, who didn't help them trying to escape after a 100 years of imprisonment have decided they want to see this whole blue sky thing. They were deeper in the mind so they are much stronger now!

In short; it would give them time to create new content then slap hard mode an what I consider a poorly written storyline to recycle the same thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kraggy

Er, 1 HUNDRED tomes for speed-running through Sastasha?

Really?

Not going to happen.

Your comment about syncing meaning you still have to run it as it is 'on level' overlooks the fact that the early dungeons are trivially easy once you've run then a couple of times even in level 1 gear; they're designed to be.

Not until you get to Haukke Manor does the difficulty rise much above easy.

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This is different from CM now how exactly? The point is we would have Variety in what we choose to run for 40 minutes.

The tome reward could easily be adjusted for lower level content (<35) so that you still get more from doing the longer more challenging dungeons (35>).

If they don't feel any urge to go back and help new players now, any 'incentive' will come at the cost of the new players' experience. Anyone who doesn't do this already doesn't -deserve- an incentive. Let them grind; the entire genre is wasted on them as it is.

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Originally Posted by Jocko

Solution (Which they're kind of doing): 'Random' queue button. Can only use it solo (so no pre made groups) and it throws you in a random dungeon of any level. Rewards tomes upon completion

Any complaints?

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I like this. Perhaps maybe a daily completion type thing. Such as you get 100 tomestones for doing a random lower level dungeon maybe 3 times a day. So at least new players a month from now (and currently) will have some people to do dungeons with.

I actually still find things like stone vigil harder then any CM / prae speed run

Ice dragon on a white floor with a low graphic setting = sucks

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Originally Posted by Kraggy

Er, 1 HUNDRED tomes for speed-running through Sastasha?

I note you also don't factor in the requirement that ANY noob is being helped at all, so 4 x 50 speed-running Sastasha while watching a movie is what you're asking for it seems. As it stands, you proposal is extremely unlikely to help those you are saying you want to help.

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Clearly you didnt understand the OP's idea and went into elitist jerk mode before finishing that sip of obnoxious tea.

Let me highlight the key point for you: help the lower levels. By that i am sure she means that you'd have to group in the duty finder as an individual going for random or something along these lines. The matchmaking could easily be set to mix 50's and levelling players, making speed running more difficult. And even if speed running was possible, i'd rather have the variety of seeing players speedrun 10 dungeons than speedrun Prae and CM if i'm a dev.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jocko

Solution (Which they're kind of doing): 'Random' queue button. Can only use it solo (so no pre made groups) and it throws you in a random dungeon of any level. Rewards tomes upon completion

Any complaints?

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Rift has a similar system to this. Every day you get a token that stacks (up to a max of 7 last I played) for rewards through the LFG tool. You can either keep you dungeons/Instant Adventures limited to your level range or check Random and be thrown into any group that has an opening for you. As you level, the money and item rewards increase, so someone in their 20's will get a few gold and a piece of level 20ish blue gear, while those folks in their 50s would be getting 1+ plat, tokens for early raid gear, and a piece blue level 50ish gear.

This would give people the option to either stick with the high dungeons and get more rewards for their level from the loot in those dungeons, or help lower level folks and still get some form of rewards for the easier content. Once the reward tokens are burned, you are back to only getting the normal rewards from those dungeons you join.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jocko

Solution (Which they're kind of doing): 'Random' queue button. Can only use it solo (so no pre made groups) and it throws you in a random dungeon of any level. Rewards tomes upon completion

Any complaints?

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I can see people getting an instances such as Stone Vigil and immediately quitting in anticipation of wipes.

It's a small gripe but could potentially make running those close to 50 instances even harder to do if someone keeps quitting once the party is formed.

With 2.1 they are releasing an MVP System where you can get MVP points at the end of a dungeon and can get Minions, Mounts, and Chocobo Armor with it. Perhaps with 2.2 they will expand the MVP System with Vanity gear and Class-specific or Cross-Class abilities to make it more rewardable to help.

Also in 2.1 they will be releasing:
2 Hard Mode Dungeons
2 Extreme Primals
1 Returning 'Primal' (Good King Moggle Mog XII)
1 Entrance Dungeon (8-Man)
1 24-man Raid (unlocked by Entrance Dungeon).

I like the idea it certainly has merit.

It's downfall is putting currency grinding end gamers with entry level players.

Sure they'll get some lovely, helpful, fun skilled players which will makes runs efficient but also enjoyable.

But they will also get the complete opposite. A lot.

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Originally Posted by Farkle

I like the idea it certainly has merit.

It's downfall is putting currency grinding end gamers with entry level players.

Sure they'll get some lovely, helpful, fun skilled players which will makes runs efficient but also enjoyable.

But they will also get the complete opposite. A lot.

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I know that in Rift, you didn't see that many end-gamers actually doing the Random dungeon option, since they didn't receive loot from those low level dungeons that were useful to them. I did the Random dungeon option if I was short on time, just felt like helping a few lowbies, had some achievements I wanted to tag in those dungeons, leveling an alt and wanted to break up the quest grind, ect.

One other thing the Rift LFG reward system has is bonus XP completing the dungeon. If you can add a decent bonus for that reward PLUS first time run reward, it would also help break up the FATE grind to some extent and get more than just endgame folks interested in queuing.

I would LOVE a "Random" tab in duty finder where you get endgame currency for helping other players outside of the endgame "tier" your on. Even if it's only once a day/week deal. SWTOR I know did that. Most hardcore grinders would still stick to grinding the hell out of the top tier content they have access to anyways for drops but it would really help out low level players with more experienced players helping them out. The pro's outweigh the cons big time. It all seems so simple really.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SecondNature

This is different from CM now how exactly? The point is we would have Variety in what we choose to run for 40 minutes.

The tome reward could easily be adjusted for lower level content (<35) so that you still get more from doing the longer more challenging dungeons (35>).

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This could work. At least it helps new players levelling up. Acts as a stop gap until more content is added. Adjust exp to be competitive with FATE, like another poster said.

This is a good suggestion, I also wondered what will happen to new players since progression is tied to some group content. It definitely would drive away some customers if they can't progress in the story.

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Originally Posted by Belandomolando

This is a good suggestion, I also wondered what will happen to new players since progression is tied to some group content. It definitely would drive away some customers if they can't progress in the story.

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This is the biggest problem right now. Already, a month in, on new servers (Tonberry as an example where I play) the linkshell's and FC players who are not 50 basicly have to beg us to come complete their story dungeons or wait in 2+ hours queues and often get a tank who just leaves or players who just suck too badly to complete it.

When completing the story is becoming this hard, only a month in. It is going to drive so many new players away when they simply cannot do the story.

We need better incentives for max level players to go back and do the content.

Sorry SE, but the MVP system and 'pets' ect is not going to do it, most of us are not interested in that sort of thing.