(Don't read if you don't want spoilers) I honestly don't know what title would suit this thread so.. forgive me for the lack of creativity on that part. Onto other matters!
Bahamut Coil has 5 turns, 1 of which has a jump quest and the last turn, extremely difficult! No complaining here, I appreciate the difficulty! However! One thing I feel they need to change is to make it so friends/free company mates can help out members who are stuck in a lower Turn, and allow no Need/Greed on loots for Turns they already passed within that week!
That sounds like a legitimate reason! And if that doesn't make sense, lets say a friend of yours finished Turn 1 and moved on to Turn 2. You're currently stuck on Turn 1! As of now, he can't do Turn 1 at all. Yes, this is so people won't farm the Allagan gears but what if that person can help you out and do Turn 1 but when a loot drop, he cannot Need or Greed on it?
That sounds pretty fair. What are your thoughts people? I figure I share this since it bugs me that some people are kind of missing out and losing opportunities. Especially for Free Companies that are making groups and if one person is missing on a certain day and such, they're pretty much screwed. Yeah, they can find a replacement and such but that'll leave one person out and such.
Tell me what you guys think! And please, no negative comments please!
What We Can Do With Bahamut Coil!
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10-08-2013, 08:51 AMNoctisCaelusWhat We Can Do With Bahamut Coil!
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10-08-2013, 08:56 AMWarlyx
SE is using that method for a reason > to avoid selling runs to coil.
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10-08-2013, 09:05 AMSoulscare
Totally agree. Something has to be done... How it is right now, your FC has to be a multiple of 8 or someone will miss out. It's not fair and it's (in all honesty) almost as stupid as banning people for having too much gil.
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10-08-2013, 09:07 AMTrystWildkeyThis, a thousand times this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlyx
Sorry for your difficulties, but I completely understand why they designed it this way. -
10-08-2013, 09:08 AMKaliban
I thought it only locked the leader? I swear someone said only the leader was raid locked. It did not make sense but I am not yet at coil so I cannot confirm
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10-08-2013, 09:08 AMMook_Mookmore or less this, its similiar to wow raid, week long lock out. It prevent mass influx of gear, per 8 people and more are skipping turns due to this system, its keep allagan gear coming in extremely slow, so people dont max. as much as wwant to help people in lower turns the mass influx of gear would be wonked.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlyx
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10-08-2013, 09:11 AMNoctisCaelusIt explains the Titan runs that are still being sold. I think the real reason is so people won't farm Allagan gears and be fully geared in less than a week. I really think with this idea, the pros outweigh the cons. And I seriously doubt that many people would buy Coil. It's each week and the chances of a gear dropping specifically for your class? Not that high. Even with 2 gear drops. And if someone's willing to pay over 500k or more every week. Hahah, AHAHAH. Thats a lot of money every week.Quote:
Originally Posted by Warlyx
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10-08-2013, 09:25 AMDjeserit
Not only buying/selling of Coil runs, but there's another thing to think about:
Why would anyone want to be in a primary raiding group? It would be better to have 7 (8) friends who run weekly, then get them to run you through the raid after they are already locked out of gear so you can get everything.
Trust me, I know the frustration, I have 2 groups of friends that both want me in their Coil groups. However, the benefits of locking out completely far outweigh the potential problems created by just doing gear lockouts. -
10-08-2013, 09:31 AMNoctisCaelusMy Free Company have 3 groups and we're just preparing for Crystal Towers. And I think a lot of Free Companies are doing that actually. Heh heh, yeah.. Maybe it's a dumb idea. :/Quote:
Originally Posted by Djeserit
Honestly though, with a great group, Bahamut Coil is easy to run, except Turn 5 of course. If someone spends 5 hours or so making money enough so people can run them through Bahamut's Coil, why is that a bad thing? They did work for the money after all. They might think its better than finding a group, which takes time, and failing constantly which takes even more time.
So you worked for maybe 5 hours or less to complete Turns that can be completed in less than 1 hour. *Sigh* Ohwells. Just a thought. :/ -
10-08-2013, 09:44 AMAltena
The lockout system, while it works - does need a little bit of work & tweaking.
For example, to avoid selling runs, they could simply allow you to help other groups after your lockout, as long as they are in the same FC as you.
In addition to the talk about locking loot rolls, simply reducing the loot chance by scaling it with the members who have not yet cleared for the week.
As an example, 2 items drop per chest. For argument's sake, let's say 7 people have already cleared up to turn 4, and you are taking 1 person who hasn't.
This would mean that normally, each turn that drops loot - has a 25% chance that the "new" person will get something. So simply by scaling it down to 25% chance for a piece of gear to drop (instead of 100% chance for 2 items to drop in a full, fresh group).
Once again, restrict the party members to FC only
Alternatively just tokenify everything. You only get credit for the kill once per week, problem solved. 2 items per turn, divided by 8 players is 1 item every 4 turns. While RNG / item drops from chests can sometimes be "fun" to an extent, it is also often severely unfair when the RNG happens to favor a specific role. We have multiple people that have cleared to turn 4 only once or twice, yet they are sitting on 3-4 pieces of gear, just because RNG favors their main class, while others that have been doing it since the start are sitting on 0-1 pieces...
The way to token coil would be simple.
Reward 4 separate currencies. Each currency is used to purchase specific items that currently drop from that turn. For example Turn 1 might drop "Red Coil Crystals", while turn 2 might drop "Blue Coil Crystals" or something similar.. Red can be used to purchase anything that currently drops in turn 1, while blue can be used for anything in turn 2... etc etc
There are other ways to avoid buying/selling, as well as loot whoring. -
10-08-2013, 10:23 AMNeoAmon
^ just no, there is still ways around it to sell it, so just no no no no.
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10-08-2013, 10:27 AMAltenaAnd there are always ways to make it not viable / worth selling.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeoAmon
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10-08-2013, 10:38 AMNeoAmonIf you were on my server u would understand how bad it is with Titan HM. I know an FC who sells 40+ Titan run per week for 300k (this is just one FC, I know 6 other FCs whom also do it). I have seen enough ppl with full AF1 + white accessories with relic. The selling part is also extended to Chimera, Hydra, Gruda..., u haz 1m? that is 40 min- 1hour guaranteed relic from start to finish.Quote:
Originally Posted by Altena
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10-08-2013, 11:10 AMRyel
Hate to break it to ya champ but the argument against people selling coil runs is a poor one, as long as a piece of content isn't solo-able it has the potential to be sold, current coil restrictions don't prevent this but merely delay it for the people who are still farming their own gear.
Give it a few more weeks until parties have maxed out on things they don't need from early runs and i bet you'll see prices start appearing for certain pieces.
Keep in mind I'm NOT saying that selling Titan/Coil/Anything else is a positive but only that using that as the base of your rebuttal to lock people out is a moot point -
10-08-2013, 11:49 AMWarlyxby the time that happens, we will be in 2.1 already and the ppl that are interested in buying coil runs now, are going to be busy running Crystal tower and gearing to faceroll coil with pugs (full crystal tower gear and relic+1 for coil or kick) / FC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryel
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10-08-2013, 12:17 PMRyel
Still a moot point, If people were interested in gearing up and learning content they wouldn't currently be buying Titan runs now would they? Crystal Tower or no there will always be someone willing to buy their way through content in ANY case.
However I'm not attempting to derail this into a people paying their way through content debate, i believe there are a few threads for that already.
The point merely stands that as current the lockouts for coil pose more problems than they do benefits, especially for people who want to play with large groups of people (Free company/Linkshell) there really isn't a point that can be made to tell someone they cannot HELP their friends in an MMO.
See the issue? -
10-08-2013, 12:35 PMLadon
Here's the problem with this idea.
Clear turn 1 with 8 people. Then just bring in 1 new person each time, that is 7 people that can't roll on gear and one that can. That one person would have a guaranteed 2 loot drop and you can do this over and over 1 person at a time for the rest of your FC. -
10-08-2013, 12:53 PMAltenaThere have already been a number of extremely basic tweaks mentioned that could alleviate this issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ladon
(ie. Having the chance of loot scale with # of people who are yet to clear... 25% 1 item will drop if only 1 member has not cleared for the week).
Alternatively tokenize everything, as mentioned... There are a huge number of tweaks that could be done in order to alleviate this kind of abuse. Simply locking people out is the lazy/effortless approach which while it works, is certainly not very good overall. -
10-08-2013, 12:54 PMNangaWhat does that solve? It's not like it's difficult to leave your current free company, join another one just to do coil with them, then leave their free company to go back to yours. Orrr...just sell free company slots to people so they can get coil runs.Quote:
For example, to avoid selling runs, they could simply allow you to help other groups after your lockout, as long as they are in the same FC as you.
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10-08-2013, 01:24 PMNoctisCaelusHm, maybe have a cooldown for leaving a guild and going back into another one. So people who pay for Bahamut runs will have to play solo and most people are in FC. Eh just a thought.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nanga
Edit: Like 8 day cooldown. Since Coil is a weekly thing. -
10-08-2013, 01:50 PMRyel
As previously stated, the selling of runs is completely irrelevant to the lockout, coil in its current form does NOTHING to prevent people from buying their way through right now should they really want to.
As long as content requires more than one person to complete (which it should btw in an MMO) there will ALWAYS be someone who will attempt to buy their way through it, this does not mean that people who legitimately wish to play together should be restricted from doing so.