Would You Say We're Elitist?

A discussion with a former FC officer of mine (Who has decided to transfer servers because of his paranoia) has lead me to create this thread, since now I'm actually curious.

Would you guys say Hyperion is elitist? Is the way the vast majority of players treat each other and PuG much more outrageous and hardcore than any other server/experiences you've heard of?

With transfers coming up the former officer I talk about has stated to me that there is going to be a huge influx of a-holes coming since we're apparently a server that is super hard about gear score, know fights, and jerks (How he GOT this idea, I have no clue...).

But if that fear is enough to make someone transfer, is it well based at all? I know I've seen the occasional ludicrous statement like a group wanting a fully AF2 and relic team for CM or Prae runs, but I found those types to be pretty common on any server you go to so I was never bothered by it.

Should I be worried, though? Looking for honest opinions.

What i find funny that hyperion went from being a ghost town server in 1.0 to being somehow a prime server, about the whole being full of dicks might be true in a sense, i saw a bunch of "elite" players transfering to hyperion so this might show in a more jerky community than other servers, i couldn't give you a real opinion though i play with my friends which are the same people from 1.0

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Originally Posted by Firescorpio

i saw a bunch of "elite" players transfering to hyperion so this might show in a more jerky community than other servers

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Where exactly can I go to find this sort of info?

all the ppl i knew from 1.0 whent to that server might not be to far off lol

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Originally Posted by Frantz

Where exactly can I go to find this sort of info?

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I can't direct you to the link but there were numerous threads in the beta forums of players choosing hyperion due to it being NA and what not that were that type of crowd if the sentiment stretched around other servers and hyperion became sort of a beacon what the OP says might not be to far off, also our server is one of the few who still gets dc'ed by Odin/behemoth FATE so were probably one of the more populated servers...

Again this is me talking all from my own personal perspective and memory i might be wrong, and i'm not saying it's a fact

I feel like any server that you decide to go on, is going to have your group of elitist that think they are gods among all adventurers. From reading the forums, it seems many people want to transfer off of legacy servers to the new servers. In a sense, depending on what groups do this, that server can easily turn into an a-hole server. But I can tell you this. My friends and I are all scattered currently. One is on Sarg, balmung and excalibur. From watching them play, Sarg seems to have way more RMT activity and Ex has a lot more extreme players.

You can easily stalk the forums and get info about what people are planning on doing, whether it will actually happen or not who knows. And honestly by looking at the people who post with an elitist mentality, you can see what server they are from and see a trend forming. Lately it seems that getting away from these shouts for specific requirements among other things is just not going to happen, no matter where you are :(

That was my thought, too, Arriko. I'm just asking for opinions because it couldn't hurt any. :P

I've definitely seen plenty of elitist players running the gamut from gear score nazis all the way to groups that just outright stated they wanted absolutely no one using a PS3 in their party.

Merits/Limitations of the platform aside, I don't really care much for people excluding others based on the hardware they run the game on considering not everybody can afford a PC that's capable of running the game.

But conversely, I've met a lot of people from other FCs who have been really pleasant and friendly to players of all skill levels.

I think what we might have is a case of a really vocal minority coloring people's perspective of the server. Ultimately, Hyperion is going to be what we make it, and as long as there are enough friendly, encouraging players around then everything should be fine.

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Originally Posted by Frantz

That was my thought, too, Arriko. I'm just asking for opinions because it couldn't hurt any. :P

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Opinions definitely dont hurt anything :) Besides it gives you an idea on what others see. Like Darius said. Its what we make it. We need to shun all the non-believers and extremists :D And stick with the good, helpful players.

Every server has them. Would i call the server elitist? No more than any other server in my opinion.

My FC and I were looking to leave Hyperion for that reason. So we made level 1 characters on a few other servers and ran them to Mor Dhona and sat and watched shouts while watching tv. Most shouts there were very simple. "LFG Titan hard. Please be geared". Almost none of them said be experienced. Might have been the time of night we went. My friend and I even put our "troll" maskes on and shouted one random thing that caused a huge debate in shout. No one got hot and bothered. It was pretty civil.

Ever since, we decided to stay on Hyperion for a few other reasons. But yeah. Hyperion definitely seems to be an elite server. In beta, it was not. Disappointing what it has become. :/

I guess that just makes it more up to the FCs to not foster such attitudes in their ranks, unless they intend to be an elitist fc.

I wouldn't really say Hyperion is Elitist... Perhaps Hyperion TRIES to be elitist...

As a person with Relic/DL/AFv2, I can't help but burst out laughing when I see, "AK RUNS, FULL DL AND RELIC ONLY." Some "FULL DL AND RELIC ONLY" groups are good. Others are horrible. I was once in a group with a full DL, +1 relic PLD... and I was pulling hate off of him just from my spread DoTs. -_-;;

In my experience, the players who say stuff like... "ANYONE WHO IS BAD WILL BE KICKED" are usually the people who ARE bad and should be kicked according to their own rules. I once pointed this out to some super elitist WHM dude who was the reason we kept wiping (in a joking way of course).

I don't like when people lie about their experience. If I advertise a group as 'experienced players only' because I want to get it done quick and someone joins who clearly doesn't know the fight once we enter the arena, I get annoyed. If someone is upfront with me and tells me they don't know what they're doing, I'll try to help IF I have the time to help people. Sometimes I join runs just to help people. I think the problem with the 'elitist' attitude is that people feel the need to "Fake it until you make it" because there are so few groups that advertise for lesser-geared, inexperienced people.

I formed a Praetorium run yesterday. I advertised it as "Speedy-ish, will be taking some lesser-geared people." By lesser geared, I meant, some AK gear, some AF, some DL gear... Some people joined and immediately left upon seeing my friend who doesn't have amazing gear. Why even whisper me if you read my advertisement and KNOW this isn't a 'full relic' group? By the way... with some lesser-geared people, we still did it in 30 mins... not a HUGE time extension considering everything.

The other night, I joined a Titan run on my bard. I had my Garuda weapon and only three pieces of DL (the rest AK gear), so I wasn't expecting to get a good group. There were no requirements in the shout so I decided to give it a go. No one was super well-geared, but we went from needing to LB on the heart to not needing it. We taught the tank the 'sweet spots' and how to avoid bombs. I told the healers about little tricks to make healing easier... and we won, without the best gear.

Meanwhile, I've joined groups that require great gear and experience, and they end up failing time and time again... with people pointing fingers instead of trying to improve themselves and take advice.

Long story short... who you meet and play with on this server is really about chance and who you CHOOSE to play with. When you meet nice people, befriend them and stay in touch. Avoid the jerks because the jerks probably aren't that good anyway... and even if they ARE good players, is it worth it to play with them? I'd rather enjoy myself.

Besides... when someone is messing up, there is NO reason to be rude. A few nights ago, I was helping an LS-mate with another Titan run... I was calling out Weights before they spawned so he would have time to run, but he would keep getting hit. Finally, all I could say was... "This isn't going to happen if people don't start dodging. I don't know how to help you any more than I am. Just stop getting hit." A few runs later? We won.

I guess for each person their experience will differ.

Personally, I have not experienced a bunch of elitism directed at me; nor is my FC/LS loaded with those types of people. I have a zero tolerance for that sorta behavior. I have seen the douche baggy, elitist shouts in the 'hub' areas of the game; but I also saw it when I played FFXI as well, so I guess I really shouldn't have expected any better than that. It's not like this game or Hyperion is unique in having people who behave in this manner.

So no, Hyperion is not a bad place; however, some of the people who inhabit this server are. There is a difference.

I get a good chuckle when people "require" relics for anything other than BCoB. Even Titan HM was "designed" for "normal" weapons, I mean it IS the last boss for relic >_>; all it is, is memorizing + DPS/HPS race. It feels like people use "leet gear" as a crutch for actually knowing the class/fight.

I remember one night the 3 of us pulled a DF healer that barely has gear beyond AF, first time through and we pulled through fine. Healer dropped twice, demon wall from purple and anti-boogabooga (last boss) from fear of getting up close to the boss then got hit by catastrophy. All the healer needed was a short paragraph before each fight and we pulled through smoothly. Lesson here is don't judge by gear only. If it is bad, a simple "Sorry, I need to go." and find another group. See someone you like? Friend list... and maybe a casual LS to keep in touch. Who knows, you might find a good bunch of like minded friends to play with, weather you are leet gear onry or friendly-helpful.

All Hail Hyperion.

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Originally Posted by Ryuko

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You are the kind of people I enjoy playing with.
I have come across all kinds of people, both in the DF and in /shout groups.
When I was helping my FC go through AK the first time I told them to be honest when we get in the instance and just say they're new to the dungeon and learning the fights.

Was helping another FC mate do Garuda (story) and we kept wiping because they couldn't kill the plumes fast enough to save the pillars. I gave constructive critisism to my FC mate and told him to ignore the player being an ass because that player had mostly lvl 20 - 30 accessories talking about other people not being good. My FC mate was on his lvl 50 Drg with all lvl 48-50 gear. In the end the group disbanded an my FC mate just said he'll look at the strats and vids more for the fight to get better.

People only get better when they're helped and shown better ways to do something.

it's people like Ryuko and Cyan that makes this server bearable, I have multi relics, DL, yada, yada yada and it just kills me to see some of those shouts... "must have relic +1 and full DL for AK" << ... I mean seriously?...lol

just for example, yesterday there was a shout at toll asking for help with garuda (easy) for story... that person was shouting and shouting and no would would take the 5 mins to help out... I decided to lend a hand, killed the primal and he/she wouldn't stop thanking me for coming... it was great to help out, but it's sad at the same time because people couldn't take the five mins out of their time to help out, ( and most are just running around the crystal, not doing anything actually ) almost like they forgot that they were there once needing help...lol

anyway, I wouldn't blame someone for leaving if they say this server seems to be full of ( insert bad word here ) but it also have it's share of good people to, and as someone pointed out, you might leave here only to find yourself in the same situation on some other server...

I thought perhaps all servers were like this, but maybe Hyperion is a bit elitist. I asked to join a Garuda farm and the shout said relic only. I have all Ilvl 70 gear and garuda weapon; I know the fight inside and out. I asked and the person said DD were full. I said thank you for the reply. Twenty seconds later the same person shouts Garuda Relic DD only. I mean that is their prerogative, but it everything just seems so overboard. I would consider switching servers if I knew this was less prevalent elsewhere.

That being said I have met some great people, so they are out there. I just try and stay out or Mor Dhona as it lessens my faith in humanity these days.

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Originally Posted by Lstkaws

That being said I have met some great people, so they are out there. I just try and stay out or Mor Dhona as it lessens my faith in humanity these days.

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Yes, I only go to Mor Dhona to spend my Tomes, besides that i stay out of it or I turn off my /shouts.
The way some people behave there is sad indeed. The only fun thing about all the Mor Dhona shouts are when people troll the "Relic Only Plz" shouts.

As a former Age of Conan player I laugh anytime I see those types of prerequisites for a group. These dungeons are easy in comparison. What I have noticed is usually it's not so much that people don't know the conditions of the fight, but don't really have a clue of how their class/job fits into the party and it's effective use. Knowing the conditions of the dungeon and being a level 40+ that still doesn't know what to do with the class is a totally different thing. With that in mind I am not interested in a group that has players that do not know their class. I didn't get around to completing the level 15 dungeon until about level 25 because of poorly performing groups.. and lagged behind each time I got to a dungeon pretty much each time after. I am transferring of Durandal to this server. I prefer my challenge to come from the game, not a player (at least in PvE).

I think what I'll start doing is forming my own PuG groups for non-relic and non-AF2 people to try and get others to see that the elitists are not the predominating class of player on Hyperion. :P This is our game and our server after all, if people feel like they have to avoid Mor Dhona because of these guys then that's giving them way too much influence over how we play.

But it is nice to have all this feedback. I honestly wasn't expecting all these responses.

I have shouts filtered 99% of the time. I'm not an elitist, I'm an isolationist. :p

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Originally Posted by ZettaiRyouiki

I have shouts filtered 99% of the time. I'm not an elitist, I'm an isolationist. :p

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Separate tabs ftw, and I usually ignore the shout one. ^^;

I have been looking through some of the other legacy worlds posts, and there a lot of FCs offering up free Titans and only one or two semi-elitist comments. Granted, those are the boards so who knows what it may be like in game. This thread has me thinking; is this what we want to be known for as a server. There are the elite FCs, but those are not the people shouting in Mor Dhona; I imagine we rarely see people from those FCs as they run with their groups. Why and how did our server get to be like this, if it is in fact different from others?

Mayyyybee they're the ones that didn't fit in or got rejected by said "elite" FCs but still want to assert their "leet-ness"? I mean I understand the want to do 10-min. w/e runs for mythos and philos but isn't it kind of overboard to force that on pickups or DF parties? As I said, make a linkshell of people you deem "worthy" or join one...

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Originally Posted by Rhylee_Mau

Mayyyybee they're the ones that didn't fit in or got rejected by said "elite" FCs but still want to assert their "leet-ness"?

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That is my theory. These people are probably @sshats in game and in RL and no one wants them in their FC so they resort to shouting for their "Relic+1 / AF2 Only" CM/Prae/AK runs in Mor Dhona. If they were competent people they would probably belong to a FC that ran these things (like normal elitists) on a regular basis.

You guys complaining about these "elitist" on something that really has nothing to do with you so what if they want to make a fully geared SR group? maybe thats how they enjoy the game? I don't see these said elitist making threads about people making "normal" pug groups. IMO you people complaining about these people are far worse then what they are doing....take a look in the mirror guys this same exact thread was made on the balmung sub forum and i still dont get what the big deal is....you see them shout their geared party so what move on or put them on your black list if you hate them so much done and done right?

Vonleo you're spot on there.

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Originally Posted by Vonleo

Stuff

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I think it is more of a general wondering about the overall tone of the server as compared to others. The people behaving in this way only mildly affect my game play or enjoyment thereof. I think the discussion is whether this is a game wide or a localized server phenomenon. Is it a big deal? Well, that depends on how it effects ones enjoyment of the game. As I mentioned the effect on me is minimal, but if other servers experience this to a lesser degree and would thereby increase my enjoyment of the game, that is something I would be interested in knowing. I think the discussion is valid. However, your point on complaining about it is also valid. There is not much of a point in complaining about it.

Vonleo and Lstkaws,
Yes it is minimal on how it affects normal players, but that group mentality seeps and spreads on a server.
If you want to run an AK sr in relic+1 DL/AF2 only parties, that's fine, find a LS that has the same mentality and run to your hearts content.
The issue is how these types of people generally treat others with lesser gear or less experience in said dungeon.

Granted this isn't across the board and may not even be the majority, but it's enough that it's seen. These people tend to treat others with less respect and either pick on or bully those that mess up instead of trying to teach and help. It's the attitude that goes along with these shouts not the shouts themselves.

Like I said, these people may not be that dominant but they are more vocal so more attention is given to them. I have come across people that span the spectrum from being a complete douche to patient and helpful, sadly the douche is the one that gets noticed.

I encountered a situation last night that really put me between a rock and a hard place.

I was helping my friend out with Titan (a fight I must have done over a dozen times by now) and he PUGed a few random members to fill the extra slots. One of those extra members was a summoner.

Note: I am generally not the type of person who wants to teach you how to play your job. I'm not going to nitpick about every little rotation you do. However, this guy's performance could not be ignored. I knew I would kick myself if I didn't say something and let him get kicked without trying to teach him first.

Whether or not you believe parsers work for summoner (DoT tracking is infamously wonky), you can easily gauge a person's performance based on their hate on the main boss. Summoners have access to Quelling Strikes, but this will NOT dump your hate to seventh place -- which this guy was consistently at. His dps was consistently less than half of mine after multiple attempts if you are to believe the parsers.

This guy had great gear (relic and full DL) so there is no way his dps should have been that much lower. I couldn't figure out why his dps was so low, so I started watching his every move. He was keeping up his four DoTs... But... he's using Energy Drain? After yet another wipe, I politely asked him... "(name), why aren't you using fester?" I'm paraphrasing his response: "Fester isn't worth it. Energy drain is better or else I'll go OOM. Fester damage isn't that good and it wastes time. It's better to use my DoTs." Fester is an instant ability and costs one aethercharge. It costs no MP. I'm not sure what he meant by that, although I'm assuming he meant that he NEEDED to use Energy Drain to get mp back.

Instead of laughing at him, I tried to explain why Fester is good. It's the one summoner 'burst' we have. With his gear, he could EASILY crit for over 1k without Raging Strikes. He refused my advice, told me I was wrong, and reassured me that he knew what he was doing. I explained to him that mana isn't an issue because we have a bard who will be using ballad after heart for the healers -- free mp for us! Yay. I didn't get the chance to tell him that he should conserve the use of Energy Drain for when he is starting to get low (which he wasn't in the beginning).

But... he refused my advice, and another try later, he didn't improve at all. The entire party decided they were going to kick him, but not before berating him by calling him a 'fail smn' and 'bad at his job'. Did I agree with my party? Yes, in a sense. The guy refused advice even though I tried to help him. Yet, I wouldn't be rude toward him because nothing gets accomplished that way. However, if someone is UNWILLING TO LEARN, they are a bad player in my opinion. If someone is receptive to advice and help, I will never think of them as a bad player because they are willing to learn.

Anyway, the whole point of my story was to say, "It's hard to handle certain situations without coming off like a jerk." I never directly said anything rude to that summoner, but my party did (people I can't control) and I am sure the guy left with a sour taste in his mouth. I just hope he thinks about my advice because that performance isn't going to fly in the future. :(

I think of myself as a pretty nice guy easy to get along with. I don't mind helping ppl in DF or teaching ppl dungeons, and when I do SR stuff it's generally with my FC who I'd say is full of great hardcore players. Thing is, I don't really group up much with ppl on our server outside of a pug hydra or chimera.
I'm sure our server has lots of ppl like me that just go unnoticed. I wouldn't mind doing more group activities with people on our server. But my que in DF is instant as a tank, so I can just click that anytime/anywhere I'm not with a FC speed run pt.

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Originally Posted by Ryuko

if someone is UNWILLING TO LEARN, they are a bad player in my opinion. If someone is receptive to advice and help, I will never think of them as a bad player because they are willing to learn.

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Yes, I agree there are just bad players that never learn.
Just like there are ass hole players that just can't be nice no matter what.

It does go both ways. I met a Whm that thought he was hot shit, I laughed when he came into AK in a bathing suit, but I was like what ever, as long as he keeps me alive. When he did put on his gear for bosses he had 2 DL items, a lvl 1 belt, the Stategos Body and accessories that ranged from 37 - 49 and he had the nerve to try and school a mnk friend of mine that knows how to play his job.

You get the elite ass hole that likes to stroke his epeen and not be bothered by anything and you'll get the guy that just can't play and refuse to learn because he thinks he has a large epeen.

Those that are more vocal get heard the most, so the "relic+1 AF2/DL only" people in Mor Dhona come across as elitist pricks.

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Originally Posted by CyanDvai

Those that are more vocal get heard the most, so the "relic+1 AF2/DL only" people in Mor Dhona come across as elitist pricks.

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I can't say I've done any 'research' on this, but based on my own experience... the groups that require the most experience/gear are often groups that won't win.

I tend to join Titan groups when I'm really bored. I like to help people (call me crazy) and think doing Titan is a fun way to do it because I know a lot of people still have issues with this fight.

Anyway, when I join one of those 'experienced only' or 'serious runs', very rarely do I join a group that is capable of doing their job and moving. In one 'serious' Titan run I joined, the bard blamed me for his death (I was healing) because he kept getting hit by things and I apparently wasn't healing him. Keep in mind that if you want AoE heals from stomp, you need to be NEAR your healer... I don't accept blame for people getting hit by bombs/plumes, and I will heal them up if and only if I have the tank as high as he needs to be.

On what I believe was Wednesday night, I joined a Titan run eleven minutes before maintenance was going to happen. They only needed one DPS and I said I would go if we could win in 11 minutes. I didn't expect to, but why not try? There were no real requirements for the run -- they were just shouting for people. We went in and killed it in one shot, promptly said our goodbyes, and logged in time for maintenance.

I feel like people who TRULY know how easy that fight is will understand that you DO NOT need relics or DL to kill Titan. You just need people who can dodge. No amount of vitality is going to save you from constant screwups. And as far as the DPS check? I've been in groups with AK gear, some DL, and we kill the heart without needing LB.. and yet there are 'full DL/Relic' groups that build for a Lv2 LB?

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Originally Posted by CyanDvai

Vonleo and Lstkaws,
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Wait what? so these people have to try and find a LS so they can do geared speed runs in? do you know how selfish you sound right now? Like i said before you have the black list use it if you don't want to see them shouting the black list isn't only for you to black list RMT's!

Also you agree it has basically no effect on normal players! all I read sorry for saying this is excuses after excuses....I think your grasping at straws here man...

No one ever said you had to agree with my opinion, and that's exactly what it is.

Is anything going to change because of this thread, no.
But these types of shouts do give an overall view that the server is "elitist".
And unfortunately elitism has a stigma that goes with it. I know a lot of good people on this server, ones I played with since v1.0 and I've met a lot of good people, it sucks that his is the stereotype that we are getting, and it's not a good stereotype.

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Originally Posted by CyanDvai

No one ever said you had to agree with my opinion, and that's exactly what it is.

Is anything going to change because of this thread, no.
But these types of shouts do give an overall view that the server is "elitist".
And unfortunately elitism has a stigma that goes with it. I know a lot of good people on this server, ones I played with since v1.0 and I've met a lot of good people, it sucks that his is the stereotype that we are getting, and it's not a good stereotype.

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Like i said earlier these same shouts are on almost every server it doesn't give any server the look of an "elitist" also the fact that these shouts are basically only in revenants toll makes all these posts bashing on these "elitist" pretty pathetic...again i came from balmung these same shouts were being made and thats coming from a freaking RP server....