DevTalk: Time's Running Out. Bring Out the Gimmicks (Sephiroth, Kefka "Dream" BCNM)

Interest in this game is fading fast. Square Enix is losing money fast. What do you do? Well, besides from implementing Triple Triad, one idea is to shamelessly exploit the successes of your previous games and use their IP (in limited ways) in FF14.

First, implement a BCNM ( http://ffxi.somepage.com/bcnm/ ) system like in FF11. Aside from the regular BCNM battles using monsters from the FF14 universe, add in a couple doozies that would generate massive interest among all Final Fantasy fans.

Sephiroth BCNM could even feature a special "One Winged Angel" boss theme to go along with it.

Perhaps every 1 or 2 months, we could have another dream BCNM that involves a character or characters from other franchises. Perhaps King Slime from Dragon Quest, or Lavos from Chrono Trigger.


Now, normally I wouldn't be for such blatant fan service in this game, BUT, the devs need to bring out every trick in the book right now, and you gotta admit, this will create interest on the pure fan service alone.

I mean, hey, SE did make Dissidia, after all.

lol renta.

Sure, why the hell not!?

I couldnt see this idea working, battlefields will work but please dont make the mobs inside anything like antagonists from the previous games if people are that short that they rage quit because there is no Sephiroth, the game is better off without them in my books.

BCNM yeah, but with Sephiroth? No. I think it would make Square look bad and FF XIV look cheap. It needs to be a bit more creative than that.

I wouldn't say interest in this game is fading at all. I think there is quite a bit of excitement within the community for the upcoming changes. When Square decides to talk about the PS3 game inteterest will be generated again, maybe they will do that at E3.

lol never thought i'd see Sephiroth in a tag here...but yeah, im really hoping for some huge content drop soon, especially after the new combat system is implemented. Thats the reason they've been using for awhile now...and after that, there really shouldnt be any more excuses.

Cant just let a main numbered FF die right?

EDIT: Seriously, though more boss fights are a good thing...just need to start rolling out more enemy diversity in XIV. Couerls, Behemoths, and whatnot.

Only acceptable cameo battle is a Gilgamesh battle.

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Originally Posted by Delsus

if people are that short that they rage quit because there is no Sephiroth, the game is better off without them in my books.

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Perhaps you misunderstand me. People quit, and have quit by the thousands because there is nothing to do and the battle content sucks.

Sephiroth BCNM and Kefka BCNM and Magus BCNM would give players a reason to stay.

Hey, it made Kingdom Hearts pretty cool, didn't it?

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Originally Posted by Dega

lol renta.

Sure, why the hell not!?

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I know, right???

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Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

Only acceptable cameo battle is a Gilgamesh battle.

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I can go with that...as long as there is a battle on the big bridge remix.

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Originally Posted by Teknoman

...as long as there is a battle on the big bridge remix.

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Oh god, do want. Do want, so bad.

Tekno, you're making me all hot and bothered.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Perhaps you misunderstand me. People quit, and have quit by the thousands because there is nothing to do and the battle content sucks.

Sephiroth BCNM and Kefka BCNM and Magus BCNM would give players a reason to stay.

Hey, it made Kingdom Hearts pretty cool, didn't it?

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It actually wouldnt make people stay, most will probably just say that its turning into a cheap game because its loosing money now, there taking devs away from it for other projects, devs are loosing thier imagination.

These are the sort of lables the game doesnt need right now, as i said I would be interested in battlefields, just they shouldnt be made cheap, and with a lack of imagination.

Holy christ no.

...Maybe Gilgamesh.

No thanks. As much as I liked Kefka I don't want some gimmick just for a desperate attempt to bring more dumb fanboys into the game.

I could see them bringing lore into it. When you enter the fight Cosmos is in the center of the arena. She looks up at you and says something like. "The balance of the universe is imperiled. Assist me in training these warriors for their final battle." then she disappears and a random Hero or Villian from past FF's spawns and you have to fight them. It doesn't name them it just calls them something like "Lost Hero" or "Lost Villian" and they have a FFXIV based appearance with signature skills present.

You lie !

Time ran out months ago.

Only as a special event in the distant future. I wanted something similar to this for FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Akira_Tenshi

BCNM yeah, but with Sephiroth? No. I think it would make Square look bad and FF XIV look cheap. It needs to be a bit more creative than that.

I wouldn't say interest in this game is fading at all. I think there is quite a bit of excitement within the community for the upcoming changes. When Square decides to talk about the PS3 game inteterest will be generated again, maybe they will do that at E3.

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but there are Sephiroth in the game hell there more then one lol

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...hiroth&stgt=77

I disagree with this proposal, especially from the premise that it worked for Kingdom Hearts and Dissidia. Those are very different games, and have no basis in any of the respective characters' realms. You shouldn't expect to canonize what happened to Cloud in Dissidia and Kingdom Hearts to Final Fantasy VII. The compilation of FFVII is different as it is specifically meant to add onto the story of the original game. The fan service games were made specifically for fan service reasons and they are respected accordingly.

I also think they would lose as many players as they would gain if they implemented such a system, but ultimately, it would cheapen the experience. Loose connections I'm fine with i.e. the materia system. Considering Yoshida's "use it if it works" philosophy but only if there is a purpose for it, i.e. "there needs to be a practical purpose for the giant cake before two cooks can make the giant cake".

Cairdeas's proposal, while trying to give the concept legitimacy, in my opinion falls short of expectations when it comes to good storytelling. Introducing Cosmos herself with her motivations intact is fan service enough without the additions of Sephiroth, Kefka and the like.

Cid, moogles, airships, Gilgamesh, summons, and the use of similar system concepts is plenty of leeway to keep fans interested. These things need to exist first before iconic characters that defined their respective Roman Numeral'd games. Even before that? The promises the original team made. Only after those options have been exhausted would I think it to be plausible, and only form a financial perspective, to introduce such a system. Then again, if it gets to the point where that is the only thing that would "save" the game, one should really start asking themselves if they really think it's worth it to pay a monthly service fee to continue to play such an obviously flawed game.

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Originally Posted by Captaindownsyndrome

but there are Sephiroth in the game hell there more then one lol

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...hiroth&stgt=77

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http://i.imgur.com/YsHB7.jpg

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Originally Posted by Captaindownsyndrome

but there are Sephiroth in the game hell there more then one lol

http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com...hiroth&stgt=77

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All I could do after looking at that was:

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Originally Posted by Rhomagus

Cairdeas's proposal, while trying to give the concept legitimacy, in my opinion falls short of expectations when it comes to good storytelling.

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These "dream battles" wouldn't be connected to the main story. They are completely separate and just a BCNM. It would have nothing to do with the universe of FF14 at all.

Buy Ticket

Use ticket to gain entrance to instance

Fight Jecht

Get loot

BCNM over

There are many possible reasons for a player to fight any particular battle.

1. Challenge (Disasterific?! I am on my way!)
2. Friendship (We're not just a bunch of faceless soldiers.We're friends, and we've been through a lot together.)
3. Plot (This is my story! It'll go the way I want it to, or I'll end it here!)
4. Loot (I ain't in this for your revolution, and I'm not in it for you, Princess. I expect to be well paid. I'm in it for the money.)

Traditionally, the hero/heroine fights for a reason other than the fact that they're bored. There is very little that is epic about fighting just to break the monotony. And I personally feel that what FFXIV is lacking (among other things) is a sense of epic.

Even a smuggler would face off against a galactic empire in epic heroic fashion for enough money.

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Originally Posted by Teknoman

lol never thought i'd see Sephiroth in a tag here...but yeah, im really hoping for some huge content drop soon, especially after the new combat system is implemented. Thats the reason they've been using for awhile now...and after that, there really shouldnt be any more excuses.

Cant just let a main numbered FF die right?

EDIT: Seriously, though more boss fights are a good thing...just need to start rolling out more enemy diversity in XIV. Couerls, Behemoths, and whatnot.

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Coeurls are on the way. It's been confirmed via datamining. :3

Make it an instance with a lockout timer (seven days?) and I'll support this. The "farm stuff for an orb and run to the remote corner of the planet to enter the BC" was lame.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Sephiroth BCNM could even feature a special "One Winged Angel" boss theme to go along with it.

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I want the Kefka BCNM to have a properly orchestrated (and properly played) version of Dancing Mad (the climb up the tower and the final battle), including the 16-bit maniacal laugh where proper.

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Perhaps every 1 or 2 months, we could have another dream BCNM that involves a character or characters from other franchises. Perhaps King Slime from Dragon Quest, or Lavos from Chrono Trigger.

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This takes me back to the old "Lavos as a Raid Boss" thread I once saw. Wish I could dig it up...

Edit: Hmm....now that I re-read the OP's post, I thought of something else. FFXIV's version of Caverns of Time. The ultime excuse to throw the players anywhere in time and space and still make it feasible from a design and gameplay perspective.

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Originally Posted by Teknoman

I can go with that...as long as there is a battle on the big bridge remix.

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Yes. My heart says yes too... and my bed.. is welcoming.

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Originally Posted by Jinko

You lie !

Time ran out months ago.

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So pessimistic, Jinko!

:p


:)

why not have new epic battles. To have to reuse to that extent implies that they have nothing entertaining to bring to the table here. Time would be better spent creating new memorable charachters.

Im down with gilgamesh because he is a reccuring theme in the game, a legendary figure of FF universes, kefka and sephiroth are just two villains.

They to in the future of this game, add a new and gripping villain, Keep that in mind for future expansions/plotlines. Also they created a few interesting charachters that they then just ignored for most of the plotline, they need to have more quests/sidequests involving their stories (just like most of ff6 sidequests were about uncovering the stories of your charachters)

As far as a quick ticket bcnm fix. I would go with some of the the legendary creatures/figures of old FF that are more iconic like bahamut gilgamesh odin Cid

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Interest in this game is fading fast. Square Enix is losing money fast. What do you do? Well, besides from implementing Triple Triad, one idea is to shamelessly exploit the successes of your previous games and use their IP (in limited ways) in FF14....

....Now, normally I wouldn't be for such blatant fan service in this game, BUT, the devs need to bring out every trick in the book right now, and you gotta admit, this will create interest on the pure fan service alone.

I mean, hey, SE did make Dissidia, after all.

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I agree with you, but actually, SE isn't doing ENOUGH to make this game seem like the rest of the franchise. It's more like an adopted child.

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Originally Posted by Physic

why not have new epic battles. To have to reuse to that extent implies that they have nothing entertaining to bring to the table here. Time would be better spent creating new memorable charachters.

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These are just BCNMs. One-off, separate, instanced battles that have nothing to do with the story or anything else. It's pretty much just like the Coliseum in Kingdom Hearts.

Like I said in the OP, "Aside from the regular BCNM battles using monsters from the FF14 universe, add in a couple doozies that would generate massive interest among all Final Fantasy fans."

The main focus IS on "Time would be better spent creating new memorable charachters", as you said in your post. All I'm saying, is that it might be a good idea to take advantage of the library of already established Square Enix characters and SPARINGLY pick them to use in special fights, just to create hype and interest.

This is a draw that no other MMO can claim to have - to be able to use so much history and so much past nostalgia to its advantage...

It's like Virtual Console on Wii.

...But again, I warn against overuse. Too much of a gimmick can be dangerous.

WOW @ THIS THREAD TOPIC

almost unbelievable

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Originally Posted by Verecund

WOW @ THIS THREAD TOPIC

almost unbelievable

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Almost.

Desperate times call for desperate measures.

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Originally Posted by Akira_Tenshi

BCNM yeah, but with Sephiroth? No. I think it would make Square look bad and FF XIV look cheap. It needs to be a bit more creative than that.

I wouldn't say interest in this game is fading at all. I think there is quite a bit of excitement within the community for the upcoming changes. When Square decides to talk about the PS3 game inteterest will be generated again, maybe they will do that at E3.

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Mez agree with you Akira :) I would like BCNMs but no past FF or other SE stuff. we need new icons for this game :D maybe an event where we fight the main characters from the FFXIV story that comes every so often. like the Heroes and heroines combat from the fanfests :D or some other thing that makes FFXIV look more like a new game that has a lot to offer someone who hasn't played FFXI instead of just another MMO :) but I think the devs will work out something, its just a matter of time :3

Doesnt have to be characters, I'd love to see Magus Sisters BCNM, Yojimbo anyone? Eden, of course Ultima/Omega Weapon, There are so many amazing creatures from past FF series that would definitely be interesting for instances, I'd kill puppies for a challenging Magus Sister fights!

Tiamat seems reoccurring enough to be a good choice for this. That or I wouldn't mind killing moogles.

People didn't leave because the good things weren't good enough.. they left because the flaws were too great

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Originally Posted by Verecund

People didn't leave because the good things weren't good enough.. they left because the flaws were too great

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some may have left for the flaws, but honestly i saw the biggest exodus with the lack of content and the sp change/nerf.

it made sense that there were so few goals and cool things to do when the game came out, because initially you are just learning teh ropes and leveling, but 8 months in? we should probably have had 2 level cap increases, access to ishguard, chocobos airships, and some type of team oriented missions/quests/dunegons by this point. I mean even ffxi zilart was already on the way by this time im pretty sure.
and i know they added the ranger paladin beast before zilart was out.

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Originally Posted by Physic

some may have left for the flaws, but honestly i saw the biggest exodus with the lack of content and the sp change/nerf.

it made sense that there were so few goals and cool things to do when the game came out, because initially you are just learning teh ropes and leveling, but 8 months in? we should probably have had 2 level cap increases, access to ishguard, chocobos airships, and some type of team oriented missions/quests/dunegons by this point. I mean even ffxi zilart was already on the way by this time im pretty sure.
and i know they added the ranger paladin beast before zilart was out.

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FFXI wasnt a shitstorm like this game was though. XI didn't need to be completely overhauled and fixed. XI also had the benefit of not being released outside of Japan for the first year so many players were oblivious. Long story short, this game is not of the same descent as XI was. They can not follow the same paths and rules

Sometimes I can't believe how stupid the people on these forums are. Grats OP. You are the stupidestest.

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Originally Posted by JayvirDeforte

FFXI wasnt a shitstorm like this game was though. XI didn't need to be completely overhauled and fixed. XI also had the benefit of not being released outside of Japan for the first year so many players were oblivious. Long story short, this game is not of the same descent as XI was. They can not follow the same paths and rules

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oh from what i have read ffxi was quite a shitstorm, they just never decided to rework the battle system, which honestly is probably one of the better parts of this game imo. boring animations? yeah retarded upper sp limit that makes you fight weaklings? yeah but DoW combat? versus monsters of a challenging level/in groups? its pretty good for me, on pug anyway.

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Originally Posted by Kuai

Sometimes I can't believe how stupid the people on these forums are. Grats OP. You are the stupidestest.

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The idea is a little rough, but it honestly is not a bad one, adding in some sort of optional battle with old FF villains, and maybe getting a weapon/armor item from each of them as a prize.

Does not have to be anything crazy, even if they are "joke" items.