Research a dungeon before you queue up

Going in blind hoping to get carried gets no one anywhere and you're wasting everyone elses time that queued for so long

Trial and Error.
Ask questions if you need help.

TL;DR: No.

the dungeons you play while leveling up aren't meant to require any research- you are given plenty of time to figure out anything that isn't totally straight forward and simple.

Woah, so someone learning on the fly (or, heaven forbid, from talking to other party members) is dead weight that may as well not be there? Yeah..... no.

yep, i also prefer trial and error
getting wiped is part of the fun

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Originally Posted by Kyouko

Going in blind hoping to get carried gets no one anywhere and you're wasting everyone elses time that queued for so long

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Going in blind does not equal being carried. Get your false analogies out of your head and look at the content yourself. Somewhere, somehow, everyone has to learn this from scratch. It is also false to suggest that everyone learns anything useful about a fight by "reading up," or "watching videos." Most explanations I've found for Ifrit or even Garuda fall flat on their faces when it comes to explanations, especially when "guides" are being handled by people so geared as to make half the stuff you should deal with trivial.

No.

People need to stop telling others how they SHOULD run a dungeon. Let people learn. Have patience. Let the content also be a teacher.

SO in other words anyone new is looking "to get carried" and must study every dungeon before going in, whatever you are smoking i think you should probably lay off of it. It's called trial and error, experience is the best teacher.

As a tank, I have never minded explaining fights to anyone. The only exception is AK because I know the community attitude towards it and I'm afraid if I ask if someone is new and someone says yes, the group will instantly disband.

Yeah, no. If you wanna go into Garuda, or Titan, research that. Ifrit, research it (he's not remotely hard, but you can't know if something is hard til you look it up) but honestly, a four man is a four man is a four man. If you want to research it, that's great great great, but I'm not making you.

Awwww another self entitled git. No. It's good when a tank asks questions and tries to learn the dungeon. If a tank is new, be nice to them and be patient. That's how good tanks are born!

Not sure why people are like the OP @ all. I'm certainly NOT going to view a story fight before i do it. Unlike you, i like to find my own way to do stuff. I catch on quick and i don't need to be told how to play. I'm not saying i'm the best player, but i certainly have been gaming long enough to not need hours to figure out a fight. So i'll be learning as i play. Without videos or whatnot to ruin my excitment along the ride. Your request is as rediculous as others wanting new players to skip cutscenes. :mad:

Me and 3 others went in completely blind for stone vigil and we beat it, by wiping alot and thinking what we were doing wrong.
Even garuda (story mode of course).
It was actually quite fun.

Read a guide and go in just don't go in without doing any research

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Originally Posted by Kyouko

Read a guide and go in just don't go in without doing any research

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No thanks, i'll learn as i play. But thank you for your advice. :o

It seems many people have been forgetting lately that they at one point were one of those new players experiencing a specific dungeon for the first time. You can research a dungeon all you want but all parties are different. People suggest different ways to go about it depending on their experience. Some people read up on it to give themselves a heads up, some want a fresh first time. Either way eventually it will come to the same conclusion: victory! Even if there is a wipe before defeat :)

After that first experience I didn't really want to screw up again (3-4 deaths in one primal fight... not good) so I started looking for information of what the abilities are and watched some fights on youtube so now I knew what was next and how to avoid being killed. It helped, after that I improved a lot.

If you're really up to trial and error on end-game you will end up being excluded or called up names if you que with a random party / duty finder, imo the best way to learn a dungeon or fight is by researching a little, watch the dungeon/fight once on youtube, then run it with your linkshell or free company, then you will have the tools to excel on your job, most people just need one to three dungeon / primal fights to start improving and learning the mechanics.

When I went into Titan HM, I watched the fight over 5 times on a video, when I qued the first time in duty finder, I was one of the last ones to die (no enough DD to kill the heart, sadly) just because I knew what the titan mechanics were and was prepared for it. A new player to the fight with no research will simply die on the first plumes or bombs that appear. Researching a little can do wonders to avoid frustration to both you and your party members.

I have to say, if you're using the Duty Finder to run all your dungeons and you haven't found a Free Company/Linkshell to do it with by now, then expect the Trial & Error method 90% of the time.

I "could" research the dungeons before I run them, but I "choose" not to. It's fun for me to experience the dungeon without knowing what's going to happen until it happens so that I get those "woah!" moments.

Typically, I've found when I research the dungeon before I run it the first time, I get extremely irritated by every little thing that goes wrong because I'm "expecting" it to go right since I researched it first.


Now, when I'm running a dungeon with my FC, I'll definitely research it first, because we're not there for "fun" we're there for serious business... come to think of it, that might be why I have less fun doing runs outside the Duty Finder.

I also went through dungeons such as The Stone Vigil blindly, and learning how to do them was actually a lot of fun. :/
I'm very patient, and I honestly like helping newer players through dungeons and setting an example.

(I can't wait for the MVP system. Just saying. :) )

This is RPG, when it's first time in a dungeon i want to explore it with my own view before read "guide"

Hmmm well here you have two things, people that que in duty finder "for fun" and people that que in duty finder just to do the fight/dungeon. Sadly you cannot separate the groups that want to do it because they need it done asap and the ones that want to learn it the ol' fashioned way.

Granted it is fun going into a dungeon blind, but atleast ask before hand if you're new to the dungeon. Personally I like explaining a dungeon/fight to help others get through it, even if it takes longer to pass but I rather spend 5 minutes explaining each boss/primal than having one member dead the whole run.

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Originally Posted by Kyouko

Going in blind hoping to get carried

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That is not what I'm doing when I go in blind... I absolutely hate the current gaming community that seems to think you need to know everything before playing, it is certainly more prevalent with the MMO community, but even developers of single player games decide to remove any sense of wonder and excitement from a game before it is launched... Oh Skyrim has dragons in it? That absolutely wouldn't have been an amazing thing to discover on my first play through, thanks for making sure I went in prepared Bethesda !

No. You only get one chance to enjoy something for the first time, and I'd much rather my first play through of any game not involve me going down a mental checklist I read online...

Ppl like the OP should be removed from this community -.- You don't get what MMOs are about.

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Originally Posted by Hagito

Granted it is fun going into a dungeon blind, but atleast ask before hand if you're new to the dungeon. Personally I like explaining a dungeon/fight to help others get through it, even if it takes longer to pass but I rather spend 5 minutes explaining each boss/primal than having one member dead the whole run.

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That's been my experience with DF. Just ask and someone will let you know if they are new. Well, aside from the little text blob that says there's 1 or more people that are new so a bonus will be given. I have had plenty of dungeon queues where we spend a few minutes just talking about it. What to look for, where to be positioned, don't step on the symbol that appears on the ground!! Etc. a lot of people appreciate that. Because it still gives them the sense that they are experiencing it with no spoilers.

lol. Because taking 5 seconds to say "Stay in the purple", "Be ready to avoid AoEs" and "Kill the Crystals" is too much work. I've yet to see an actually complicated fight that requires more than a sentence or 2 to explain. Are there any?

But yeah, I agree with Vergil and the others. Trial and error is fun. Story-mode Titan has been the only real fun I've had combat-wise. And when I did it it was with 3 others who went in blindly and we learned as we went. lol. I went back and did Titan again once acting like I didn't know anything about the fight and yadayada. Beat it the 2nd attempt. Was all sadface.

Never did, never will

I would watch videos or guide if I keep on wiping but for the first time I want to go fresh and discover

I wonder how the first people completing these dungeons managed to do so without having some outside source of information to consult...

None of you guys sound like raiders to me, i guess that's where I'm coming from. Well some of you do but the majority of you aren't

Not everyone can learn just by reading. They have to actually be in the situation to see what to do. Sometimes I try to read up a bit to find out what a boss is going to do, but I wouldn't even bother mentioning it for all the good it does half the time.
It has nothing to do with being carried. People just learn differently. Some people can read a book about how to put something together and get it done. Some people need the pieces in front of them and in their hands as they read the instructions to do it.

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Originally Posted by Hagito

Hmmm well here you have two things, people that que in duty finder "for fun" and people that que in duty finder just to do the fight/dungeon. Sadly you cannot separate the groups that want to do it because they need it done asap and the ones that want to learn it the ol' fashioned way.

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That right there is why the Derpy Finder was, and is, a terrible idea... Sure, you get groups "fast", but they're not the groups you want... You have several people who want to do the content for different reasons; someone wants to watch the cutscenes, someone wants to speedrun it for tomestones, someone else wants to spiritbind... Furthermore, they're all likely from different servers, meaning when friction between players starts to show, people generally have little reason to hold back in their pointless mudslinging... I wouldn't even call the Derpy Finder good for new players. Yes they can get a group for content quickly, but where does that leave them in the end? They end up reliant on the thing and practically unable to form groups outside it, which is an absolutely terrible fate in a MMO...

I really wish they'd replace the Derpy Finder with the server board system they're meant to be adding in 2.1. That is a good system, one which would also benefit much more from MVP... I'm sure the rate of finding a group with it will be slower, but it is still effectively forming a shout group with none of the effort of shouting in Mor Dhona; you just put a message on the board and wait. Everything people want from the Derpy Finder, shouts already offer. You can kick people quite easily. You're all on the same server so there is a reputation to think about. You can organize what kind of run you want, and how drops will be handled. Oh, and since you're all on the same server, maybe you actually stand a chance of meeting some people who can help you in the long run.

Square should really be slapping MVP on that, not random Derpy Finder groups... If you see a posting on the server board asking for help with Story Mode Titan, and you decide to help, then that is the sort of behavior which should be getting rewarded, not some asinine vote system in randomized groups... Once 2.1 hits (actually, right now even) I see no reason to use the Derpy Finder at all, maybe that is why they decided to add MVP to it? I absolutely loath the amount of wasted development time that is going into the Derpy Finder though... Crystal Tower had damn sure better be amazing for it to have been delayed for a system I completely abhor... Really wish they'd just drop Derpy Finder in favour of the server board....

/endrant

No. And...wait for it...you can't make me.

Plus, I enjoy PLAYING the game, not spoilers of the game.

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Originally Posted by Kyouko

None of you guys sound like raiders to me, i guess that's where I'm coming from. Well some of you do but the majority of you aren't

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If being a raider involves making unnecessary snide remarks about anyone wanting to experience an MMO dungeon "fresh" as being automatically carried then I'll take that as a compliment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kyouko

Going in blind hoping to get carried gets no one anywhere and you're wasting everyone elses time that queued for so long

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Good luck ever being the first to beat a tough fight if always rely on guides to tell you what to do. I can tell you that those that cleared the stuff first had no guides to do it with, so where did they get the info? From trial and error.

I think it would be awesome if all the top players would stop posting guides and stuff for everyone else to piggyback off of. This need for the silver platter to be passed around needs to go away. As there is no reason for many to actually try and learn from anything when the stuff keeps being given out on a silver platter.

I just finished up running Praetorium with a group of 8; most were AF only and quite a few were first timers.

I've honestly never had so much fun in a DF group before; I was healing for a tank friend that wanted to complete the story and I thought I could help if I went along with him since he'd had a bad DF experience earlier in the day.

It took me all of 30 sec before each fight to give the new guys a head's up as to what to expect and what the best strategy was; I knew we weren't going to get a speed run, but to be honest I didn't care. I don't mind spending an extra 20~30 min in a run if it means that the people I'm with are having a good time, and if needs-be, learning something new.
We had a couple of wipes (One on each form of Ultima), but we always got it on the 2nd try, it was great and the new guys learned a great deal. After the first try they were stellar.
All it took was 30 seconds of my time; a lot less time than it would have taken to scream obscenities at them and call them names.

If people took a minute to pull the stick out of their ass, they'll find the community as a whole will grow instead of all of this "OMG NO RELIC OR DL IN A STORY PROGRESSION DUNGEON?! U N00B" crap.

I'd totally suggest catching a video if you're going to look into HM primals, but for the most part you learn with experience. Don't be afraid to ask for help, and don't be too uptight to offer it. For the most part, the community that I've had the fortune of bumping into has been awesome, very patient and welcoming. I hope this welcoming behavior catches on.

There's nothing wrong with trial and error; no one's going to complete everything their first time. But instead of directing people to video guides, why not take 30 seconds yourself and explain to people what they need to do?

How did people running through content for the first time, on release, cope? If you're using DF or you're doing PUGS then you have to expect that beautiful thing... The unexpected.

Nothing drains more fun out of a game than having everything pre-decided, with no room to experiment. I've had more laughs with parties that don't take themselves too seriously. That's the way I'll keep it. I take no issue with people blisting me because I failed a run because I hadn't read/watched the fight prior to going in.

ts;dr: No.

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Originally Posted by Kyouko

None of you guys sound like raiders to me, i guess that's where I'm coming from. Well some of you do but the majority of you aren't

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Not every raider is like you. I don't have much to brag about, I was just the designated off-tank on add duty for Sartharion 3-Drakes pre-rush, designated off-tank on all the other Ulduar fights and designated main tank to control pre-nerf Mimiron positioning, etc...but I can't prove it to you. So you can rest assured that I'm just talking trash out of my mouth and I don't even know what a raid is. :3

I've been having fun doing Aurum Vale runs with first timers and I always suggest we just "go for it" on each boss. Then I drop a hint here and there after wipes, pointing out only the things they're doing wrong.

Obviously I give full strategies if they prefer that, but it seems people mostly prefer to experience it first-hand if you offer to do it with them.

And I get to experience the fights in whole new ways each time I do that. What's the fun in making everybody execute the same strategy over and over again? :3

At least for leveling dungeons, there's no point asking people to read up and learn the fights beforehand.

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Originally Posted by Kyouko

Read a guide and go in just don't go in without doing any research

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Best way to learn something is to do it.
You can read many guides, watch many videos, but in the critical moment you can forget everything if you try to remember it without practice.

As example, I'm a person who need to experience it first myself. If I watch a video first, I would not know on what I should pay special attention.

Not looking up information the first time gives me:

- The visual surprise and no story spoilers.
- A social interraction when discussing strategies with my group.
- The laughs and years of memories after doing epic mistakes.
- Observing and using my brain to learn things and the gratification of completing the dungeon that way, as opposed to look at a youtube video and get told what to do like a zombie.

Even some serious and elitist raiders want to experience these points the first time they do a dungeon.

You ask for others to be considerate to save you time. I ask you to be considerate to help others enjoy the game as it should be enjoyed. I agree however that there should be a system to enable people to raid without players that haven't completed the dungeon yet. I think everyone would be happy that way.

Luckily from reading all these posts...it would seem the OP is in the extreme minority. Some faith in the FF community has been restored today. Thank you all ^^

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Originally Posted by DeceptionsWrath

Not sure why people are like the OP @ all. I'm certainly NOT going to view a story fight before i do it. Unlike you, i like to find my own way to do stuff. I catch on quick and i don't need to be told how to play. I'm not saying i'm the best player, but i certainly have been gaming long enough to not need hours to figure out a fight. So i'll be learning as i play. Without videos or whatnot to ruin my excitment along the ride. Your request is as rediculous as others wanting new players to skip cutscenes. :mad:

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I dislike people who join the queue and don't listen to anything I tell them and keep screwing up which wastes my time and everyone elses that's trying to get the dungeon done

I don't mind people who screw up but are trying to get things done, I actually like helping them

I like find my own way.
Other wise I could just watch the game on youtube, and how much fun is that after a few hours.
I will watch a Youtube video after failing a few times to find out what is being missed.


It took my static 5 weeks of 2 tries to do Aht 44 in FFXI but when we finally got it. It felt great.

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Originally Posted by Kyouko

I dislike people who join the queue and don't listen to anything I tell them and keep screwing up which wastes my time and everyone elses that's trying to get the dungeon done

I don't mind people who screw up but are trying to get things done, I actually like helping them

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Solution: Make some friends.