adloquium shield effect, making scholars compete with each other.

Right now, the shield buff adloquium doesn't stack. an adloquium and succor doesn't stack. the same spells respectively from another scholar doesn't stack.

Now the question is, should adloquium buff and the shield from succor be different? would it be too imbalanced to have a roughly 300+ shield and a (if crit), 1000+ shield. having more than one stack of succor buff from more than one scholar is too much but not having them overlap would mean we dont need more than one scholar. (sorry for dragging in whm but regen and medica II can stack, why not a measly 300 shield succor? and if you're saying 6 scholars = 1800 shield, 6 whm = roughly 3000k heal per 5 seconds. assuming it can stack that many. im not sure. just saying)

I guess what i'm trying to say is, the spells as it is right now would mean having 2 scholars are quite pointless. do scholars have to compete with each other for a single slot in a raid? and what if a 24 man raid?! 1 scholar 5 white mage? I AM NOT SAYING BUFF SCHOLAR AND NERF WHITE MAGE. just give the people a reason to take in another scholar.

Summoners and Scholars in crystal tower will be a disaster. That's why I'm getting my relic for BLM. Tracking DoT's among so many people in a raid will be ridiculous, and the case of wasting a heal will also be an issue for scholars.

They cannot make Adloquium stack without heavily nerfing Scholar.
2 Scholars is already amazing anyways, you have great MP management and shouldn't have to spam Adloquium ever. It's not hard to cancel an Adloquium if you see another SCH casting it on an obvious target.
You spam Physick for the most part, tossing in Adlo when necessary.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Crescent_Dusk

Summoners and Scholars in crystal tower will be a disaster. That's why I'm getting my relic for BLM. Tracking DoT's among so many people in a raid will be ridiculous, and the case of wasting a heal will also be an issue for scholars.

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No, they won't. Tracking DoTs will be easier in 2.1, which is when Crystal Tower comes. Wasting a heal should never come into play, only bad Scholars spam Adloquium, and only bad Scholars cast it on top of another.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KariArisu

They cannot make Adloquium stack without heavily nerfing Scholar.
2 Scholars is already amazing anyways, you have great MP management and shouldn't have to spam Adloquium ever. It's not hard to cancel an Adloquium if you see another SCH casting it on an obvious target.
You spam Physick for the most part, tossing in Adlo when necessary.



No, they won't. Tracking DoTs will be easier in 2.1, which is when Crystal Tower comes. Wasting a heal should never come into play, only bad Scholars spam Adloquium, and only bad Scholars cast it on top of another.

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People like you fascinate me.

Anyway, what I think the guy you quoted meant was that smn/sch will have some issues when they release bigger raids just because there are limited debuff slots. Unless they change this, which I hope they will but SE is really stubborn about common sense changes like this, groups won't take more than a smn or two unless forced. AND you still will never ever need more than one sch, like ever, per raid and only if you even feel like you need one at all. Whm stacking is gonna get silly at that point. All those regens and medica 2's. Well, I have a 50 blm and whm so I am prep'd. In process of gearing them.

Quote:

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2 Scholars is already amazing anyways, you have great MP management and shouldn't have to spam Adloquium ever

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Hey idiot. If all whm did was spam cure (physick) then they would have "great MP management" too.

Whm heal up to double the hp per mana point, have more control over their healing but have less mana return
Sch heal much less per mana point,have less control over their healing but have better mana return

Your solution to multiple sch penalizing each other is to make them use their weakest tools -.-. How does your advice encourage people to take another sch over whm? Do you think 1 sch 5 whm pts is balanced at all? Do you think that 5 sch pts spamming physick will clear anything?

Why is it ok for 2+ whm to work well together and clear all current content easily but 2+ sch penalize each other healing potency really badly.
2nd sch healing potency on tanks becomes awful if they dont use adlo look at this calculation
Sch
healing in 15 seconds
3350 potency
whm
4650 potency

If a party was 2 sch. They would have no 18% stoneskin or have magic defense protect.

Tank has 5500 hp

2 sch can use 1 adloquium each on him to shield him before the upcoming titan buster for...
650+650= 1300 hp
1 whm 1 sch can use an adlo + an 18% stoneskin to shield for...
(sch)650+(whm)990=1640hp

So how is 2 adlo stacks op exactly? It costs 320 mana to make a 30 second duration 650 hp shield. So its not spammable at all .

So far there is no content atm that requires a sch to complete. Double adloquium would not change that.
However turn 4 requires a whm to complete. Aoe raid damage every few seconds for 1400hp there is no way 2 sch can heal that in current gear. Titan hm and turn 2 is also much easier with a whm in the pt.

While your in the process of calling people idiots, look at your post. Why did you increase the amount healed by WHM in your second equation without knowing the amount of HP your target has? Without considering target HP, GCD, and Cast timers.

Stoneskin on target with 5,500hp (average amount of hp for tank in half darklight):
18% = 990hp
3sec. cast timer + 2.5sec Recast = 5.5sec
266 mana (50)
---------------------
Total: 3.72HP per 1MP @ 5.5sec.


Cure I on target:
400 potency (600 is average heals considering Passives + stats in half darklight)
2sec. cast timer + 2.5sec Recast = 4.5sec
133mana (50)
---------------------
Total: 4.51HP per 1MP @ 4.5sec.

Using stoneskin during an active fight is self suicide on your hp/mana ratio.

Cure I + Adloquium:
1250

Adloquium + Adloquium :
900

Same math applies to Succor.

Had to remove a lot of my post due to text limitations pm if you want all the math.

Theoretically if both scholars were some how timing ever spell and adloquium and succor correctly it would be totally viable. Perception is oen way and as I corrected your post someone can flame mine just the same.

Its the way you say it that makes the difference don't be that forum troll trying to prove others wrong. It is sad.

Personally, I don't see a problem with adlo and succor stacking. One of each isn't a big deal.

I wonder how viable it would be to make it so if you cast adloquium/succor when a target already has someone else's shield effect the potency could be increased by a degree.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kryologic

Theoretically if both scholars were some how timing ever spell and adloquium and succor correctly it would be totally viable.

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The thing is, you won't ever reach that type of synchronization in fights like titan hm for example, having 2 scholars in titan is just so difficult to survive through phase 5. It doesn't matter if your healing is one after another and succor shields are being applied as it is taken off. It just doesn't have the healing power to heal the raid and the shield barely does anything compared to the amount of damage incoming. and since you can't have 2 shields, the other scholar is totally useless before tumult, SS can't stack either. I think a nice thing SE can add is give us an aoe heal that is viable in terms of healing up the raid by having the spell consume a stack of aetherflow.

Scholar balance lies in maxed out gear.
Full crit mix gear of Allagan/Myth Scholar will be critting a lot of the time.

Adloquium doubles the shield effect on crit. You ll be critting for about 13xx with that kind of gear giving you a 1,3k-ish heal and 2,7k-ish shield for a total of about 4k effective shield+hp combined in 1 spell cast.

Just saying that long term Scholars are viable solo, duo or anyway you can think of, once they'r geared out they get the most out of their gear.
As for the viability of dual scholar, well it's too bad, but that's same kinda debate as why 2 wars are not as good to have on some fights, or why you rather take just 1 tank instead of 2 in most 8 man instances.

Some fights are just better optimized other way, doesn't mean it's not possible with the less optimal combination, but it's harder.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kryologic

While your in the process of calling people idiots, look at your post. Why did you increase the amount healed by WHM in your second equation without knowing the amount of HP your target has? Without considering target HP, GCD, and Cast timers.
maths

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recast is calculated at the start, not end, of most spells.
I think energy drain is the ony one with a hidden cd, but I'm not sure if that is listed in he spell or not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kyxa

I guess what i'm trying to say is, the spells as it is right now would mean having 2 scholars are quite pointless. do scholars have to compete with each other for a single slot in a raid? and what if a 24 man raid?! 1 scholar 5 white mage? I AM NOT SAYING BUFF SCHOLAR AND NERF WHITE MAGE. just give the people a reason to take in another scholar.

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Uh. CT should be 3 parties, each with its 2 healers, so i don't think there will be too much competition.

The most realistic and quite simple solution to shield stacking from different scholars would be to have a capped shield amount (higher than any single shield) which everyone can contribute to.
So if I cast shield with 300 pts, enemy damages it down to 50 pts and another scholar casts with 400 pts, it will be 450 in the end. The cap being maybe around 600 pts.
This solution is also cool because it needs only 1 buff icon, no matter how many scholars use shields on you.

Unfortunately shields do not get refreshed in the current game mechanics, so one has to be destroyed before the next can be applied.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eronaile

Unfortunately shields do not get refreshed in the current game mechanics, so one has to be destroyed before the next can be applied.

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Stronger shields replaces weaker ones without having to wait for it to wear off.

People seem to be just comparing Adloquiom vs all whm tools assuming that in a 2 Sch scenario, both would be spamming Adlo, which is a horrible way to play the class.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sharazisspecial

If all whm did was spam cure (physick) then they would have "great MP management" too.

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Don't forget, any scholar worth their salt is dishing out 600 potency per physick, via pet's Embrace between every cast.

Smaller heals + shields means that by default Scholars have less overheal. Overlapping shields is the scholar equivalent of the greater overhealing multiple whm's suffer.

Situations in which 2 scholars would be a benefit:

Fights requiring higher mobility (Embrace + Lustrate).

Dps heavy fights. 2 scholars can mean twice as many uses of Fey Glow/Light.

Both classes clearly have clear strengths, but Scho is often played poorly due to the higher level of micro management involved, thus people opt for more whm's.

Esteemed friends and colleagues! When both healers are SCH one needs to summon Selene and one needs to summon Eos because the pet buffs also don't stack, so that the party get's all 4 pet buffs simultaneously and no worries about overwriting/competing. If both summoners are healing in Eos mode than the party is missing out on %30 spell/skill speed buff! ( THAT IS MASSIVE FOR DPS AND AMOUNT OF CURES PUMPED OUT) Whenever I get into a party with another scholar I mark my territory erh I mean tank that I am choosing to be in charge of healing and I let them have the other tank.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Crescent_Dusk

Summoners and Scholars in crystal tower will be a disaster. That's why I'm getting my relic for BLM. Tracking DoT's among so many people in a raid will be ridiculous, and the case of wasting a heal will also be an issue for scholars.

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What kind of nonsense is this? Learn to /recast

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kryologic

While your in the process of calling people idiots, look at your post. Why did you increase the amount healed by WHM in your second equation without knowing the amount of HP your target has? Without considering target HP, GCD, and Cast timers.

Stoneskin on target with 5,500hp (average amount of hp for tank in half darklight):
18% = 990hp
3sec. cast timer + 2.5sec Recast = 5.5sec
266 mana (50)
---------------------
Total: 3.72HP per 1MP @ 5.5sec.


Cure I on target:
400 potency (600 is average heals considering Passives + stats in half darklight)
2sec. cast timer + 2.5sec Recast = 4.5sec
133mana (50)
---------------------
Total: 4.51HP per 1MP @ 4.5sec.

Using stoneskin during an active fight is self suicide on your hp/mana ratio.

Cure I + Adloquium:
1250

Adloquium + Adloquium :
900

Same math applies to Succor.

Had to remove a lot of my post due to text limitations pm if you want all the math.

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Had to comment about this for a couple small errors.
1. Edit the post to bypass the 1000 char limit.
2. You are counting the GCD as a recast.
3. You are adding the GCD with the cast timer to get the total time, when the GCD starts when you start casting. In the case of Physic and Cure I, you can cast a spell, and the spell will be ready for casting again before the GCD is even up. In the case of stoneskin, you simply need to wait an extra half-second to start casting again.
4. Cannot PM on the official forums.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dasjestyr

Why kind of nonsense is this? Learn to /recast

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/recast doesn't work for DoTs, as they have a very short cast time, or none at all in the case of Bio and Miasma II. /recast will not help here and not what they are concerned about. They are concerned about the 3-5 DoTs per SCH and SMN/ACN, and making sure they are reapplying them to keep that Damage Over Time ticking.

At any rate, SE fixed this by making the DoTs and buffs YOU cast take priority to the top left of the displayed buffs. This is particularly useful in highbuff situations where people have more than the 5 buffs they are restricted to in the party screen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kryologic

Stoneskin on target with 5,500hp (average amount of hp for tank in half darklight):
18% = 990hp
3sec. cast timer + 2.5sec Recast = 5.5sec

Cure I on target:
400 potency (600 is average heals considering Passives + stats in half darklight)
2sec. cast timer + 2.5sec Recast = 4.5sec

Using stoneskin during an active fight is self suicide on your hp/mana ratio.

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Another one of those kid that make up story and showing wrong math trying to prove himself right!

First, if you think recast is on top of casting time i think u are in a wrong game, get the basic right first!

Second, using a SS in fight(as WHM) is not a suicide, in fact lots of fight require you to prepare that SS for upcoming big hit. If you said mana is an issue then think again please, mana is an issue for WHM either in long fight in coil (got a BRD?) or in 4man WP speedrun(ask for mana break>).