Determination vs Spell Speed (WHM)

All other factors remaining equal, which stat do you think provides more of a benefit to keeping stuff alive?
The amount of potency received from determination is extremely low but the same can be said about the reduction in cast times received from a higher spell speed stat. Are they equally terrible? Which one would you go for if able to choose?

Funny you should say this, I have been using the Ifrit Codex which has Determination on it and then just yesterday I got the Garuda book that swapped 18ish Det for 22-24ish spell speed (sorry dont have exact stats) and i really did prefer the spell speed, lets just ignore the other stats for now because of course it has more MND etc. There was a noticable difference in my cast time, maybe only half a second but it was still faster which meant i could keep someone up better.

Going back to the other stats, det 18 swapped for +4MND and my heals are stronger by about 50, and i know the strength of the book factors in a little bit, but i don't think det has been that important for me.

I was a fan of Critical Rate, but if I have to choose between Determination and Spell Speed, it would be the latter.

It seems to have a greater impact on slower spells like Stoneskin and Holy, though if these are not apart of one's playstyle, then it may not behoove them to align with Spell Speed.

10 spell speed gives you exactly a .01 drop in cast speed, so 24 spell speed is a .02 drop (spell speed rounds down to the nearest 10). Also, weapon damage for heals is very, very significant. It serves as a multiplier to all your other stats, and a 30-40 jump in heals from a new weapon is not unimaginable.

As far as Det goes, I don't think anyone's done the tests for healing, but we do know that its value varies pretty wildly for different dps classes.

From that being said, of what I've done in coil, I've always felt like most of the healing is quickly filling up the tank after they get chunked (think Titan phase 3, constantly). In that regard, being able to put out other heals quicker (or being able to debuff and have your GCD come back quicker) feel more important than marginal heal-per-cast increases, but the difference is still negligible.

Of course, you could just make ilvl 70 crafted items and load them all with det, spell speed and crit!

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Originally Posted by DenzelTaru

There was a noticable difference in my cast time, maybe only half a second but it was still faster which meant i could keep someone up better.

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lol. I'm sure there was a noticable difference, but it was no-where near half a second. I'm all for spell speed, but it doesn't have that big of an effect - at least not with current gear.

determination affects healing done TO you, not BY you. In other words: Determination is worthless on healer, and good on a tank.

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Originally Posted by Medura

determination affects healing done TO you, not BY you. In other words: Determination is worthless on healer, and good on a tank.

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This is incorrect. Have no idea why people continue to spread this mis-information.

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Originally Posted by Medura

determination affects healing done TO you, not BY you. In other words: Determination is worthless on healer, and good on a tank.

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In my observation, this is incorrect. A level 5 Conjurer would be healing a level 50 player for significantly more with a Cure I than a fellow level 5 player. And a fresh 50 White Mage in job armor should heal themselves the same as one of the AF+1/AF2 geared folk.

6 determination = 1 mind.

Not sure what's the spell speed calculation, but for us scholar, I would take crit>spell speed > determination.

For whm though, I think I would take determination over spell speed as I'm usually comfortable at healing and that bit more heal squeezed over long run can make our healing spells a bit more MP efficient, which seems like the problem of whm on general.

Don't get me wrong though, value wise I think spell speed will be larger than determination, it was just my play style that makes me pick det over speed as whm. If I'm not mistaken, every point of skill speed is equal roughly to 0.1% casting speed increase.

skillspeed is worth investing in bahamut coil

30 spellspeed or 30 det on one piece of gear - no difference at all. But 30 spellspeed or det on 10 items is a big deal. I believe it`s all about the boss u are gonna kill atm.

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Originally Posted by Rainsford

10 spell speed gives you exactly a .01 drop in cast speed

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No it doesnt. The longer the cast - the more spellspeed affects it. Have just unequipped items ~30 spellspeed worth - lost .10 in the Raise cast and .03 in the Cure3 cast.

And it`s a good thing to remember that spellspeed affects not only the cast, but the cd as well.

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Originally Posted by Fiosha_Maureiba

In my observation, this is incorrect. A level 5 Conjurer would be healing a level 50 player for significantly more with a Cure I than a fellow level 5 player. And a fresh 50 White Mage in job armor should heal themselves the same as one of the AF+1/AF2 geared folk.

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ok, this, this is just stupid :/ Yes, of course other classes heals for less, as they have less MIND than conjurer. MIND is the healing stat. And if people wanna say determination affects healing done BY you and not TO you, well, you are welcome to test. I will laugh at you afterwards though ;)

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Originally Posted by Medura

ok, this, this is just stupid :/ Yes, of course other classes heals for less, as they have less MIND than conjurer. MIND is the healing stat. And if people wanna say determination affects healing done BY you and not TO you, well, you are welcome to test. I will laugh at you afterwards though ;)

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Please re-read my example before you call anything "stupid". A little civility can go a long way.

Example 1:
Level 5 Conjurer casts Cure I herself. Record the healing amount.
Level 5 Conjurer casts Cure I at a level 50 character (who should have more Determination to RECEIVE more healing). Record healing amount.
Your hypothesis: the level 5 Conjurer's heal at the high level player should heal for more than same amounts as when the level 5 Conjurer casts Cure on herself.

Example 2:
Level 50 White Mage in Job armor heals herself. Record the healing amounts.
Level 50 White Mage in Job armor heals a super-geared AF +1/Allaghan armored individual (who should have more Determination to RECEIVE more healing). Record the healing amounts.

Looking at your levels on your forum posting account, you can easily try out something closer to the first example. If Determination does increase healing RECEIVED by the player, which is what you're arguing, then we can concede. Until then, keep your civility in check.

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Originally Posted by Kraftstyle

30 spellspeed or 30 det on one piece of gear - no difference at all. But 30 spellspeed or det on 10 items is a big deal. I believe it`s all about the boss u are gonna kill atm.


No it doesnt. The longer the cast - the more spellspeed affects it. Have just unequipped items ~30 spellspeed worth - lost .10 in the Raise cast and .03 in the Cure3 cast.

And it`s a good thing to remember that spellspeed affects not only the cast, but the cd as well.

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There's a few spreadsheets around that show that 10 SPS = 0.01 GCD/cast speed. I don't know how in the world your raise cast and cure3 cast differed though, perhaps look at it again.

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Originally Posted by Medura

determination affects healing done TO you, not BY you. In other words: Determination is worthless on healer, and good on a tank.

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This is wrong in every possible way.

You're somehow confusing this stat with the GLD skill Convalescence. Is it because they both have more than two syllables?..

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Originally Posted by TeddyPrime

Is there no way for you to say this without being condescending and rude?

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Maybe. But, since they in fact responded rudely to a post with a perfectly good explanation to disprove them, I don't feel they earned my civility.

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Originally Posted by Riko_113

This is wrong in every possible way.

You're somehow confusing this stat with the GLD skill Convalescence. Is it because they both have more than two syllables?..

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Is there no way for you to say this without being condescending and rude?

Hi Medura,

I started healing a level 25 player who has 71 Determination for amounts of 830-890 over a minute's worth of Cure I.
I proceeded to heal myself, level 50 player with 259 Determination for amounts of 830-890 over a minute's worth of Cure I.

It is my observation that Determination does not affect the healing received based on this. If anyone finds something different, please let us know. I don't want to rule it out, but I don't see it impacting the healing received by spells, only the healing done by spells.

I am personally going to get as much of the determination AF2+allagan peices as i can.
There is not a determination af+1 or allagan for every slot however. Some allagan or af2 has only spell speed or crit. Spell speed is overall a better stat for a healer class then crit because of the control you have over the spells.

Imo whm stats mnd>>>det=pie>speed>crit

Det is great stat because it increases your healing potency and mana efficiency. Since your cure1 and regen becomes stronger with det . It means you can rely on cure2 less. Which is more mana saved. Which means during the point where damage becomes crazy you have more mana to spam cure 2. Which currently is enough to brute force coil1-4 especially with cd popped

You basically want to have enough mana to sustain cure2 spamming during the hard points in coil. Such as caecadus 5 stacks, ADS high tanks stacks, solo heal 4 stack dreadnaught.
You do this in few ways
1. Getting more pie
2. Boosting the strength of cure and regen with mnd , det and divine seal. so that easy points can we done with cure spam and regen alone.
3. Ballad from a bard.


Crit is a terrible stat for a healer to use. Because of its random nature may let you down. Healer generally gear for crit only if they have traits that benefit from doing so such as sch spell speed on crit and double shields.

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Originally Posted by Syncness

There's a few spreadsheets around that show that 10 SPS = 0.01 GCD/cast speed. I don't know how in the world your raise cast and cure3 cast differed though, perhaps look at it again.

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Maybe it's 0.01%? That would make sense. Anyway you can do the same test as me to see that I'm right.

Level 50 SS is 341.

Each 130 is 5% quicker cast.

This has been proven numerous times.

9 determination is equal to 1 mind. If I have the choice between an i70 jewelry piece that gives 30 determination I'm still better off getting the level 49 item with 5 mind and 6 spell speed.