Attribute Points for Scholar/Summoner

If I want to be able to dual spec and switch on the fly for whatever is needed what should I do with attribute points since they are shared between the two? Should i Just split 50/50 INT/MND? Go all INT and just use gear for MND? Go all MND and use gear for INT?

Thanks! ;)

Neither. Whichever option you choose gimps the other. My suggestion is to pick the one you prefer, then go WHM/BLM for the other. Or just get all of them.

Choose a main job (like the one you want to go to relic with) and put the stats where it belongs
I don't think a half-summoner half-scholar is a good idea
if you want SCH main then put all in Mind. And you can still be a SMR for solo.
That's the way I did it anyway

I have a question. If you switch to THM you will have a separate set of points to that class, and you can toss it anywhere you want w/o interfering in the SCH points. Why is that not the same with SMN?

I leveled Arcanist and used both scholar and summoner. However, I preferred summoner over scholar, so my points went toward that.

My advice is just pick which kpb you would feel you'd use more, and apply points toward that job.

If you think you'll use both classes evenly, then do half and half (15 Int, 15 MND)

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Originally Posted by Salazar00

I have a question. If you switch to THM you will have a separate set of points to that class, and you can toss it anywhere you want w/o interfering in the SCH points. Why is that not the same with SMN?

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Because Scholar and Summoner are on the same class. Thaumaturge and Conjurer are separate classes.

As others suggested, play what you like right.

Scholar = 30 mind
Summoner = 30 int
Can't decide = 15 mind, 15 int

Or if you're particular about min/maxing, stock up on seals to have one of those attribute clears on hand, and respec through that as needed.

See thing is I like SCH healing better then WHM and I like SUM DPS better than BLM. So basically because I prefer these two jobs I'm SoL or I need to roll a new character. I thought that was the point of this game, not having to roll a new character? This will only become more of an issue once more jobs are introduced to the classes already in the game. Maybe I should focus my attention to getting it changed so that each job crystal can have its own attributes.

But back to topic at hand. Is gimping one 15pts really that big of a difference?

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Originally Posted by Alphalegend

See thing is I like SCH healing better then WHM and I like SUM DPS better than BLM. So basically because I prefer these two jobs I'm SoL or I need to roll a new character. I thought that was the point of this game, not having to roll a new character? This will only become more of an issue once more jobs are introduced to the classes already in the game. Maybe I should focus my attention to getting it changed so that each job crystal can have its own attributes.

But back to topic at hand. Is gimping one 15pts really that big of a difference?

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For casual players, probably not.

For hardcore end game raiders who min/max, yes.

yeah, if you're not obsessive min maxing the 15 points aren't that big of a deal. If you're going to be doing some more hardcore raiding, I recommend respecing depending on what you're playing that time.

So if I'm doing Coils would that 15pts make enough difference to cause a fail? Or is skill enough to overcome the fact that i didn't max?

In my opinion skill > stats 80% of the time.

Had a tank question us having the dps to do AK with my partner who is a bit undergeared for the place, but the run was smooth, and no dps related issues to speak of.

Having the 15 will improve your dps, but it's not the end of the world if you don't.

Thank you, SUM/SCH are by far my two favorite Jobs with Paladin coming in at a close 3rd so it is nice to know I don't have to respec or roll a new toon to play the jobs I enjoy and be successful.

as level cap raises it might make a bigger difference, but as for now i dont think 15 pts will matter all that much

I've seen SMNs with +30 MND and SCHs with +30 INT who can deal damage and heal perfectly fine respectively.

Unless you're an elitist min/maxer, the attribute allocation makes little difference.

Or just put a lot in Vit and be set for life for any situation :)

I'd really love the fact that you could distribute the points between SCH and SMN individually. Currenty using my SCH50 for Low level dungeons. But I do notice the difference already since I've pumped anything into INT already. I'm considering switching to SCH at some point, but I already got a few Dark Light things for my SMN.
Ah well maybe we getting this in future updates :3

Think of skipping 15 stat points basically removing your boots and gloves and going in naked to coil. That's around the primary stat loss you're seeing. 15 points is substantial.

With that said, that is just taking into account pure dps/healing standpoints. In some fights it might be advantageous to pad your HP a bit with vitality to make spike periods less threatening, but those scenarios are in the minority.

Primary stats have a cap... It's like the PLDs and WARs, they can go all VIT or put some in STR/DEX too. You'd think Warriors would considering they have a huge HP pool, it'd be nice to knock a few hits off from the NPCs ;) to compensate for a lower DEF *shrugs*.

I'm 15 INT 13 MD and 2 PIE ... I am usually the LAST healer to go down because of Skill in Dodging attacks and managing my MP pool better. There's even been a few HMs I've "solo" healed because the other healer kept dying and I was bouncing MP to rez and heal. Yoshi has always said "middle the road" is just fine as well. Normal dungeon runs, if it's a good tank, I shield and can DPS some and the AoE Slow is good for healing too.

Skill > Stats always.

INT helps your MP Drain skill anyway.

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Originally Posted by Belandomolando

INT helps your MP Drain skill anyway.

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Not if you stance toggle....

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Originally Posted by Staris

Not if you stance toggle....

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Very good point! but then I can't MP drain/Heal/MP/Heal etc drain with the GCD, but i'll look into that.

From testing a full 30MND makes a bigger noticeable difference in SMN heals than it does in their damage. Because I like SCH more i obviously went 30MND in the end but i tried both ways and the 30 INT was just not all that noticeable.

Because THM/BLM is a different class and SMN isn't.

Why not split them between VIT and PIE, since like most games at the end what you really need is more HP and mana regardless of class...

I too am interested in both SUM and SCH and am a little sad that they share attribute points but may end up doing this ^^

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Originally Posted by Conradus

Because THM/BLM is a different class and SMN isn't.

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Pointless argument.

It takes at most a week of fate grind to get a class to 50. Then you're done. Forever.


If my summoner wants to switch scholar, he needs 10k to reset attribute points, and then 10k to switch back soon. That's 20k seals. At 271 seals on n thanalan per fate, it takes 74 fate completions per trait switch.



Count the amount of time it takes to do 74 Fates. Assume you do one fate per 10 minutes in Thanalan (dark devices and gorgimera takes longer, as does turn in and escort fate). Let's make the fate average then for n thanalan 15 minutes. 18.5 hours of fate grinding for 20k seals.

If you do Coil every 2-3 days in a week, that's 3-4 switches per week. Or 60-80k seals. 55.5-74 hours of grinding fates.

Forever.

In the same amount of time of that grind I could have 2 separate classes to 50. So, I'm actually better off just leveling a white mage than playing scholar.

This is a problem for me. I picked up Arch because i liked being able to be the same class, but can perform two different functions whenever i needed to. Until i thought about the stat difference.
So im either doomed to be mediocre at 1 or both roles. Which is pointless.

But thats what happens with unimaginative stat system.

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Originally Posted by Noriega

This is a problem for me. I picked up Arch because i liked being able to be the same class, but can perform two different functions whenever i needed to. Until i thought about the stat difference.
So im either doomed to be mediocre at 1 or both roles. Which is pointless.

But thats what happens with unimaginative stat system.

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You can play all classes on one character, so why would you care about playing two roles on one of those classes :0

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Originally Posted by Rissy

You can play all classes on one character, so why would you care about playing two roles on one of those classes :0

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Unless the attribute points can be reset every time you change a class, playing all classes on one character doesnt seem feasible when im pumping points into a single stat that does not compliment the job/class im playing.

Since SCH and SUM come from a single class, it would make sense that either the stats they utilize as an arch are complimentary as their jobs or each job should come with its own attribute points.

Doesnt help that although arch CAN heal, its primarily dps which would prompt most to pump Int, yet one of its jobs requires mind as a focal stat for heals.

I was also "duped" into believing I could roll as both healer and DPS on a whim by leveling Arcanist. The 30 point difference is massive and significant and I'm willing to argue the other point of if you can easily pick between BLM & WHM you should also easily be able to choose between SCH + SMN. With your stat points being appropriately put in the right spots for each JOB.

The real root of this issue (and other classes with differing roles... which will soon be a larger issue once they add more jobs) is that stat points need to be allocated PER JOB and not PER CLASS. This is a rather big change but I think it's necessary. We're the tip of the iceburg on this one as arcanists.

I don't know what to tell you about gear, but I have a friend who did the Summoner/Scholar role and he dumped all his points in INT for Summoner and when he wants to do Scholar, he just switches to it and pops Cleric Stance to get his INT and MIND to switch.

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

This will work BUT keep in mind Cleric Stance increases attack by 10% and reduces healing by 20%.

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Originally Posted by LiquidDark1

I don't know what to tell you about gear, but I have a friend who did the Summoner/Scholar role and he dumped all his points in INT for Summoner and when he wants to do Scholar, he just switches to it and pops Cleric Stance to get his INT and MIND to switch.

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The 20% loss in heal potency is greater than what you gain from the 30 points of INT converted into MND (you're actually sacrificing 30 INT for 24 MND given the 20% reduction). You'll never be an effective healer in Coil using Cleric stance. Cleric Stance is for healers to DPS solo or in non-major battles. It is not meant for DPS to become healers.

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Originally Posted by Alphalegend

So if I'm doing Coils would that 15pts make enough difference to cause a fail? Or is skill enough to overcome the fact that i didn't max?

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I do not think their is anything in the end game for any class that 15 points of any stat is going to matter. In some ways, this problem for arcanist's is the same as that of Warriors. There are groups of Warriors that go all VIT, all STR, or a combination. All of these have gone on to be successful in coil. (Though Warrior is not preferred over a Paladin, but that is a separate issue than this thread)