Evil Marksmanship *warning Spoilers*

This has been on my mind since launch.
So the Garlean Empire had been depicted as unstoppable and unbeatable, dispatching Ala Mhigo with ease.
Their ships... weapons... soldiers... Gaius... Even the almighty Ultimate weapon.

Then you infiltrate their base and they become as inept as storm troopers fighting ewoks. The guards stand still and don't notice enemy troops running directly behind them. Guns are conveniently placed to destroy the Garleans who built them.

Really?

You could argue that the great crystal is helping you... but thats really only at the end, when it's honestly over anyway.

How do you perform this magnificent feat? With the Amazing power to see peoples conversations in the past.

For those who say they story is so good... You're welcome to your opinion, I just disagree. (I'm sure the white knights wont extend me the same courtesy, but C'est la vie)

It plays out like Final Fantasy fan fiction, appropriating (and even plagiarizing) specific plot elements from FF III, IV, VI, VII, X, XII and even kingdom hearts (Can you say Organization XIII?).

The pacing is horrendously slow. The plot twists are mildly surprising but ultimately contrived and cheap.

It's like someone made a list of all the most beloved Final Fantasy games and systematically determined the best parts, so they could be amateurishly recreated in the most unoriginal way possible.

I promise this wasn't supposed to be a rant about the many shortcomings of the story... Instead I really just wanted to highlight and even discuss why the grand empire was such a let down.

I assume that Gaius being only one Legatus - that you will fill greater power in future contents. I keep thinking we will get a Garlean city at some point but.. eh

Anyway, you experienced 1/14 the power of the empire (14 legatus, and emperor, two legatus now dead - assumably), I think there is still room for shock and awe. Though I would agree CM was pretty easy, the first time I did it everyone was new so that made it more interesting, but now if a single person in the group knows what to do the whole event is beyond cake walk and a bit rushed (also so long as there are no afk/trolls lol).

Perhaps they could patch in some FATE like elements, I'm not saying an actual FATE event just dynamically control the dungeon to ensure a certain difficulty - if there are a few relics in the party create an extra pack or two of mobs that ambush the party, with a little bit of AI leanings toward to the veterans (so new players aren't completely wiped). Although adding in another layer of dynamic elements could be fun too (irrespective of geared players just random content), sometimes the dungeon is different in a notable way that it would break up the monotony.. could be good.

A redesign of CM could be done now, particularly now players know it well. As for the story I think the purpose was to be mostly a reference fest, perhaps the expansion will be more of a standalone.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

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I was prepared to be yelled at... but instead you made some very good points.. I would say you're right, the difficulty of CM is a major point of contention, however, I don't feel like we are getting only a diminished version of the empire. All documentation speaks of the XIVth as awe inspiring and methodically thorough. This is the fleet that overwhelmed Ala Mhigo and yet douchesouix' metrosexual grandson was able to outwit all of them. For shame...

As for the 'amazing power to see other people's conversations', that is known as the Echo, it has existed as a prominent piece of our characters since 1.0. What it is, who gave it to us, etc have not been exactly explained. You can say the great mother crystal is granting us that ability, but I dont think so. Since this is a spoiler open area, the idea that it's Siren is also out of the hat, since she played a different role in the storyline.

The boost you receive if you fail an instance multiple times is also called the Echo, granting you enhanced dmg and hp. How or why that coexists I dont know. I think that was just laziness.

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Originally Posted by Rydin

I was prepared to be yelled at... but instead you made some very good points.. I would say you're right, the difficulty of CM is a major point of contention, however, I don't feel like we are getting only a diminished version of the empire. All documentation speaks of the XIVth as awe inspiring and methodically thorough. This is the fleet that overwhelmed Ala Mhigo and yet douchesouix' metrosexual grandson was able to outwit all of them. For shame...

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I can tell you like the grandson lol. I facepalmed when I first saw him XD - SE always has one or two characters like that lol.

Obviously can't say what SE was thinking, I assume they just wanted it to be completable - which is a bit counter to having a climatic experience (which again is greatly diminished by having vets in).

My personal suggestion would be just to go back and modify the ability sets of all garleans to be more do or die with harder counters. If you dont kill the medica (healer guy) you die, if you dont dodge the cannons you die, if you dont abuse this units ability on this other unit the fight is harder, if you dont blow up the right arm... ect ect.

Obviously made the medica example (his heals are more powerful, perhaps even buffs) but some other more clear ones would be -

The giant drill mechs can hurt each other with their aoes - situation where you need to divide the team and also point them at each other. At the same time you have guys casting slow abilities on you making the tanks likely to die if you don't esuna them - you could kill the slow inflicters but you might die to the sheer power of the mechs. There was supposed to be an incapaction system in game where you could target specific parts, I think magitek would be a great place for that system - like destroying an arm or leg. I imagine an enrage period where they get low on hp / after time and then overclock their core before dying - targeting certain parts may stop stomps which would be good for a high melee party or his drills on a ranged party (arm/legs). Also when the magitek die you can introduce an explosion like gernades.

Some of the unit AIs should purposely target players not high on the hate list (more often).

Line shot abilities, for example the drill mech I talked above shoots a drill in a line- instead of making it hit everyone in the line have it hit the first person in the line for higher damage and also make it impossible to dodge (have the person targeted have a marker and the line follow them). In this situation the tank has get in the way, the player targeted also has to stand still - or they can try to have the drill hit another enemy (like in the above example).

The machine gun on magitek should fire constantly at the target player, distance granting less damage, things in the way doing that as well like triumvirate on hydra (more people taking the blast means less damage for each single player).

The hands (those red floaty hand monsters) will grasp a player and paralyze them - from here you could change the actions based on area and learning. For the first time perhaps it just drags them back a bit and tosses them. Later parts in the dungeon could toss them into patrols. (Pretty much its Titan's cage put with a movement component if you dont free them).

The cannons should be manned by the enemy - while the enemy mans the cannon the cannon can take damage from the players meaning you have to be careful when extracting the cannon. Each cannon should have a maximum number of shots (and then die, meaning if you wanted to use the cannon you should extract the enemy asap or they will use the ammo up on you).

The vanguard with the red boss should hate reset, again because the drill mechanic is changed you will have to have a tank bite the bullet or position the bullet to hit the red mech. The large human shaped mechs (like the red) should have rockets that automatically fire at enemies at a certain distance away. This will combo very will with their knock back ability, getting hit by the knockback puts you in range of their rockets. It also makes the red mech boss fight interesting because the tank cant take the vanguard mech (gray one) away as far, as otherwise he will get shot, making the team work more condensed and .. teamworky lol.


Things like that I think would help- the point isn't to make it impossible just that winning involves a lot more movement and active thought (whats around me, what is going on around me, these thoughts are not really required in CM atm - though the magitek aoe bomb can hurt and has very fast cast time.. otherwise not lol). My list is pretty small so.. I dont think that should be it. I could make it longer if someone wanted me to but unless SE says like "we are looking into adjusting CM" it would be more of a fun project than any use to the game. lol


Edit: I know its a lot of changes that would be quite sudden in one map, the point would be they would be introduced to all the garlean units so they wont be sudden. Then when you fight them all together you have to decide based on your party how you take out the monsters.

I agree with you 100%. I love the game, but the story was just awful. I barely remember any characters, nobody is interesting, and the story is just piss poor...

If you think about it a little, you'll realize this is not unique to XIV. A lot of FF games feature protagonists that are just your average guys/gals at the beginning and for whatever reason they end up becoming an unstoppable force capable of beating the crap out of gods and stuff. It's a necessary compromise as the more impressive your enemy looks, the more accomplished you'll feel when you win (and they need to make sure you do so the main story contents can't be too hard). Instead, the real challenge comes from the optional boss/dungeons. In a way, it's also the dev's way of telling you "hey, the Empire is not the real threat here, it's the baddies in Bahamut that will rip the world apart if you don't go kill them".

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Originally Posted by EmiliM

If you think about it a little, you'll realize this is not unique to XIV. A lot of FF games feature protagonists that are just your average guys/gals at the beginning and for whatever reason they end up becoming an unstoppable force capable of beating the crap out of gods and stuff. It's a necessary compromise as the more impressive your enemy looks, the more accomplished you'll feel when you win (and they need to make sure you do so the main story contents can't be too hard). Instead, the real challenge comes from the optional boss/dungeons. In a way, it's also the dev's way of telling you "hey, the Empire is not the real threat here, it's the baddies in Bahamut that will rip the world apart if you don't go kill them".

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Yea, this rationale makes sense... it's just... the empire was SO UNDERWHELMING. I really liked Shougun's ideas for at least making the end dungeon more than a snooze fest

Based on past practice and how ppl are running CM and Prae. I'm sure one of them will be 1 of the 2 existing dungeons with a hard mode for 2.1. Have added mechanics and upgraded Boss skill lists as well as a greater reward. As I would like a much more challenging Gaius fight alone.

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Originally Posted by ReplicaX

Based on past practice and how ppl are running CM and Prae. I'm sure one of them will be 1 of the 2 existing dungeons with a hard mode for 2.1. Have added mechanics and upgraded Boss skill lists as well as a greater reward. As I would like a much more challenging Gaius fight alone.

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Really? I was thinking it would be AK and WP. You've got me thinking now

Let see here, the 2.0 story so far is nothing more then a conclusion to the 1.2x story, nothing more really. It was the end of that chapter, you won a fight VS the last guy in a chain on 13, ending with an emperor. As well the real threat is and the true story starts when you watch the final story CS. This is not a new thing, there are plenty of anime, manga, games with a story that begins with the defeat of some one who looks intimidating, but is really all bark no bite.

The story so far is the prologue of what is to come. And the conclusion of what was. We have yet to start on chapter one.

Something tells me we've only had a taste of the Empire, would be nice if at some point we leave Eorzea to take the fight to them.

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Originally Posted by Twiddle

Let see here, the 2.0 story so far is nothing more then a conclusion to the 1.2x story, nothing more really. It was the end of that chapter, you won a fight VS the last guy in a chain on 13, ending with an emperor. As well the real threat is and the true story starts when you watch the final story CS. This is not a new thing, there are plenty of anime, manga, games with a story that begins with the defeat of some one who looks intimidating, but is really all bark no bite.

The story so far is the prologue of what is to come. And the conclusion of what was. We have yet to start on chapter one.

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Cool Justification bro.

it's too bad that gaius is gone, i was hoping he'll come back in new updates, his character seems underused and he should have lasted longer.

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Originally Posted by Dano

it's too bad that gaius is gone, i was hoping he'll come back in new updates, his character seems underused and he should have lasted longer.

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Could say that for all the CM/Praetorium baddies. Was really looking forward to more story/lore with Livia especially, maybe something to do with a betrayal involving Gaius {cause you know they were an item}. Was looking forward to seeing her with helmet/armor off too, but I guess that will never happen...le sigh

Maybe they'll return in an expansion through the echo, that would be neat to see more about them, maybe during the destruction of Ala Mihgo, and/or Gaius recruiting the others. Or even his rise to power.

healers should not be able to /sit tnk Livia's reaper either while everybody loads cannons for 5 mins i lol at this everytime. all of the other reaper's are decently strong compared to regular soldiers nearby, but Livia's pimped out reaper is too weak to hurt anything

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Originally Posted by Dano

it's too bad that gaius is gone, i was hoping he'll come back in new updates, his character seems underused and he should have lasted longer.

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Don't worry, Nero can rebuild him, he has the technology. Better than he was before; better, stronger, faster.

First expansion confirmed; The Six Million Gil Man!

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Originally Posted by ReplicaX

Based on past practice and how ppl are running CM and Prae. I'm sure one of them will be 1 of the 2 existing dungeons with a hard mode for 2.1. Have added mechanics and upgraded Boss skill lists as well as a greater reward. As I would like a much more challenging Gaius fight alone.

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I hope its Prae too, turn Ultima weapon into Omega weapon by having him absorb the new primal were supposed to be getting!