Should T3 Limit Break Remove Weakness?

It bothers me to think that in the extremely, extremely rare event where a healer is required to use a T3 LB to raise the party, everyone comes up having Weakness. To me, in a situation where the whole raid is dead and needs to get up to continue the fight, having Weakness makes the raise almost (I emphasize the word "almost") useless. I've been told before that such a statement is pretty extreme because Weakness really isn't that much of a big deal, but in a fight like Titan HM or harder? I don't know...having Weakness would get you knocked out pretty damn fast.

There are 2 problems I see with the healer LB3:

1. Raise animation. If there are enough AoEs to kill most of the team, not many people will survive the raise (including the caster).

2. Weakness. If you're starting with an HP and MP penalty, the team is almost better off just wiping and trying again. The healers will already be low on mana, assuming everyone makes it through the 3 second or so raise animation unscathed.

It's such a niche LB and I feel like it's supposed to be a second chance for when a team wipes, but most of the time this is what happens: Healer/Bard uses LB3. The team raises. Some or all team mates die to the raise animation. Team circles the drain due to lack of heals and DPS, especially for DPS check boss mechanics (see: Garuda sisters, Titan heart). Wipe.

Exactly why I think T3 LB shouldn't have Weakness attached to it. Way too niche and situational to have such a draw-back. I could only ever see it used in a situation where you have such a small percentage of health on the boss left that the Weakness wouldn't even mean much. But that makes it even MORE situational.

I don't care about weakness, but the animation has to go.

Several times I have LB3d, rezzed the entire raid, but died because I was sitting around praying and got hit by an AoE. Went from 1 Alive 7 dead... to 7 alive 1 dead. Yay.

The raise animation is just awful all around.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

I don't care about weakness, but the animation has to go.

Several times I have LB3d, rezzed the entire raid, but died because I was sitting around praying and got hit by an AoE. Went from 1 Alive 7 dead... to 7 alive 1 dead. Yay.

The raise animation is just awful all around.

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The same could almost be said for the T2, though, considering how you spend an extra 5 seconds spinning around with sparkly jazz hands after you do the heal.

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Originally Posted by Frantz

The same could almost be said for the T2, though, considering how you spend an extra 5 seconds spinning around with sparkly jazz hands after you do the heal.

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Sparkly jazz hands of DOOM!

(But at least it doesn't stun you AND everyone else.... /GAG)

/jazzhands!

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

Several times I have LB3d, rezzed the entire raid, but died because I was sitting around praying and got hit by an AoE. Went from 1 Alive 7 dead... to 7 alive 1 dead. Yay.

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All bosses in this game follow a pattern, if you or anyone else got hit by an AoE from animation lock it's for no other reason than bad timing on your part.

I do not think Weakness should be removed, nor should the animations be changed because I am not comfortable with having a 100% reliable raid-wide 'reset' button when things go bad. It trivializes mistakes, and will surely be used to exploit mechanics down the road.

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Originally Posted by dontcare

All bosses in this game follow a pattern, if you or anyone else got hit by an AoE from animation lock it's for no other reason than bad timing on your part.

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Yes, a pattern- A pattern that when followed allowed me to rezz 7 other people safetly- but the pattern didn't allow 10 + Seconds of safety to the ENTIRE battlefield. People die spread out sometimes. When that happens, there isn't going to be complete safety on the entire field- which means someone WILL die. Unless you happen to need the LB 3 before a phase change or some other type of clear battlefield respite.

Anyway- typical l2p response.

I think all the Healer LB's should remove status effects so there is at least a point to the tier 1 even existing.

Seems like the more we discuss this, the more the focus turns to healer limit breaks just not being as necessary as the DPS ones. :P Although I feel like tanks use them even less than healers. However I could have just been partying with the wrong people.

Either way having them remove status effects would be cool, too. I agree.

Healer LB3 is pretty much worthless. I get it that sometimes mistakes happen and people end up dying for one reason or another. But basically, 99% of the time, when you use healer LB3, at least a few people will wipe immediate after again due to the raise animation taking far too long and AOEs going off. Sometimes the LB caster will survive because they managed to find a good spot to LB3. But if it is the healer (and not the Bard) who used LB3, they have this horrendously long animation where they can't Cure/Physick/Medica/Succor/Adloquium people who have just been raised and they can't heal the Tank, who is still managing to keep the boss occupied. So then the tank dies and then everyone else dies (again).

We actually saved a wipe on Titan with a healer limit break... but that was a rare occurrence. My biggest issue with it is the animation delay. Most of the time everyone just immediately dies after being revived because they can't move at all.

The only use I have ever, ever had for LB3 is Titan because it'll bring the people back up to the battlefield. And I only got it to work successfully once. If I mess up the timing by even a second, well, of course he's going to Tumult or Landslide all of those freshly raised corpses to death because the other healer can't heal them during the raise animation and they can't move (but Titan is free to slaughter them), and neither can I. I'm not bothered by Weakened, I'd be happy with just a simple "Accept Raise?" box like the other Raise spells. Instant raise in the same place as the corpse is borderline worthless. And then I have to sit there praying to god knows what for *waaaaaaaaaaaaay* too long which just gets me killed too. It really is better to just wipe than use this limit break most of the time.

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Originally Posted by Rhindas

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...And then I have to sit there praying to god knows what...

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I believe God is the "what" you are looking for? Or in FFXIV terms: Gods.

If I remember correctly, raise will be semi-buffed (including L3 LB) to have have short span of immunity to damage after being raised with 2.1. This will give people time to heal back up and prevent getting wiped during the animation (which they said will say, so consider that working as intended).

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Originally Posted by Delvish

I believe God is the "what" you are looking for? Or in FFXIV terms: Gods.

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I was being facetious my dear. :p

No, it shouldnt. Just as people shouldnt die too.

Anyone who is agaisnt probally hasn't done twintania or even entered coil

If enough people die in turn 5 and 4 then it is a garunteed wipe. It makes healer lb 3 really pointless. In twintania you need to use LB3 for dps on snake and on twintania. It makes the fight so much easier. It also stops you from hitting the 2 hard enrage timers where she will just ko everyone.

So if people can somehow manage to beat TT after needing to healer limit, while also managing to pull it off 10 second stun limit + res animation. They completely and utterly deserve to beat twintania. Especially since they would have make up the massive dps lost by deaths and no content trivialising dps limits.

Kind of impossible with weakeness because it reduces dps and reduces your max hp. If your pt loses too many members or key members that you don't want weakened. Then you purposely wipe because there is no point continue. Which is very lame.

Support, it's just a waste of time now.

Short answer: Yes
Long answer: Yeesss

I would like to see it either remove weakness, or summon everyone to the caster, like a raise. The upcoming damage-immunity change hopefully lasts 2 seconds longer than the raise animation so that people have a chance to to spread out.

Seem too powerful? That's the problem, both DPS Limit Breaks are extremely powerful for their cause, and the tank/healer limit breaks sputter and spew.

You need some sort of limit break on Ifrit (i'm sure a really geared group doesn't, but they don't go to ifrit either). It saves time on Garuda, and is often necessary on Titan's Heart. Why is it not cheesing a fight to build up LB, one shot adds, or take a chunk off the heart but cheesing a fight to pop tank lb and mitigate the damage (which doesn't work most the time, the only life it saves is usually the tank).

If I could have any change to the healer limit break, it would be a shorter animation. The caster and everyone rezzed gets locked up for so long that MOST bosses where this is even an issue at have spell rotations short enough to one-shot everyone you just picked up in some form of AOE that they're paralyzed inside of.

You know for a necessary class in this game you would think SE wouldn't give us garbage tools to do our jobs. Hate to say it but if you use the healer lvl3 LB then you are on the verge of wiping. Thing is, with weakness (cause you're in HM content if you have the third level) will just get you killed anyway if not the animation (till they fix that). To be honest, with as many people they have designing this system and brainstorming things....how retarded are you to think to leave in Rez sickness? All using the LB for healers does is either kill you (most likely) or kill you later (most likely). At least tanks can use it for an oh shit moment and have it succeed. A healer uses it for an oh shit moment and people are alive for three seconds tops before they drop like flies.

I can't help but think part of the problem is the opportunity loss involved. I can honestly say I have used the LB as a healer maybe 5 times, TOPS, and honestly 5 times is not really enough to get used to it and it's intricacies. I've seen the Tank 3LB ONCE, and it was simply because the tank said, "Hey, anyone ever seen the 3LB? Check this out!" because the fight was completely under control, I'm still not entirely sure what it did, though it looked really cool.

As far as Rez animation is concerned. The duration of the animation + 3 seconds after the player is immune to damage but cannot deal damage either. That should fix most of the issues with bad-luck AE targeting/lag/disorientation. (didn't they already say they were going to be making the player immune during the animation? I thought I heard that somewhere)

As for the healer LB, I'd say the following would be nice.
1 LB, Full heal + Clear all debuffs (including weakness)
2 LB, Full heal + Clear all debuffs + rez
3 LB, Full Heal + Clear all debuffs + rez + Enmity-free Heal over time or Shield.

It might seem OP, but you have to consider the opportunity cost as well considering it's a shared resource. But hey, that's just my take on it.