The song, Answers, is rather lore-rich, but it has been somewhat difficult to understand what the song means. We came to some conclusions in the past, but with the main scenario behind us ((WARNING:SPOILERS)) we can take a fresh look at it from a new angle.
I'll start with some background information, our known-knowns of context:
- The song was written well before Naoki Yoshida had a hand in FFXIV and, by consequence, was written with the original story plans in mind rather than the fall of Dalamud.
- The original story was essentially put on hold for the Calamity story following Yoshida's appointment. It was acknowledged that that original story would be returned to in the reborn realm, albeit from a modified angle.
- The lore masters had an exceptional level of control in the meaning the song conveys. This is because the intended message/meaning was conveyed first, turned into English Lyrics by Fernehalwes, and only then had music composed for it by Uematsu (this is unusual in SE music development).
The song is written as being from the perspective to two parties, though it is not revealed exactly who or what those two parties are. I originally thought those two parties were the Twelve and mankind (the five races), but I now posit that that are Hydaelyn and the Ascians.
Prologue
I close my eyes, tell us why must we suffer.
Release your hands, for your will drags us under.
My legs grow tired, tell us where must we wander.
How can we carry on if redemption's beyond us.
Verse 1
To all of my children in whom Life flows abundant.
To all of my children in whom Death hath passed his judgement.
The soul years for honour, and the flesh the hereafter.
Look to those who walked before to lead those who walked after.
Shining is the Land's light of justice.
Ever flows the Land's well of purpose.
Walk free, walk free, walk free, believe...
The Land is alive, so believe...
Chorus 1
Suffer [Feel] Promise [Think] Witness [Teach] Reason [Hear] Follow [Feel] Wander [Think] Stumble [Teach] Listen [Speak] Honour [Speak] Value [Tell] Whisper [Tell] Mention [Hope] Ponder [Hope] Warrant [Wish] Cherish [Wish] Welcome [Roam] Witness [Roam] Listen [Roam] Suffer [Roam] Sanction [Sleep] Weather [Sleep] Wander [Sleep] Answer
[Sleep on]
Verse 2
Now open your eyes while our plight is repeated.
Still deaf to our cries, lost in hope we lie defeated.
Our souls have been torn and our bodies forsaken.
Bearing sins of the past, for our future is taken.
War born of strife, these trials persuade us not.
Feel what? Learn what?
Words without sound, these lies betray our thoughts.
See what? Hear what?
Mired by a plague of doubt, the Land, she mourns.
Judgement binds all we hold to a memory of scorn.
Tell us why, given Life, we are meant to die, helpless in our cries?
Chorus 2
Witness [Feel] Suffer [Think] Borrow [Teach] Reason [Hear] Follow [Feel] Stumble [Think] Wander [Teach] Listen [Blink] Whisper [Blink] Shoulder [Blink] Ponder [Blink] Weather [Hear] Answer [Look] Answer [Think] Answer Together
Epilogue
Thy Life is a riddle, to bear rapture and sorrow.
To listen, to suffer, to entrust unto tomorrow.
In one fleeting moment, from the Land doth life flow.
Yet in one fleeting moment, for anew it doth grow.
In that same fleeting moment,
Thou must live
Die
And know.
To understand where I'm coming from, we need to understand what it is the Ascians are trying to achieve. Two points of the game are critical in explaining this. The first is our echo of the Battle of Cartenaux where we see Lahabrea speaking with his minion on the mountainside.
Their aim is to return the planet to its "true form" - a prior state. Next up, we can look at what Lahabrea tells us at the end of the Praetorium.
Lahabrea describes Hydaelyn as a parasite harming the planet that needs to be surgically removed. It implies she is alien to the planet and that the Ascians' existence pre-dates her (with her arrival possibly coinciding to the transition to the first Umbral Era). Putting "bringer of light" in inverted commas implies that you are misguided, as do his final words.
We are "bound" by the light of Hydaelyn. Imprisoned and Enslaved by Hydaelyn in his eyes.
Back to the song.
If considered from the Ascians' perspective, the prologue tells of their suffering under the confines and will of Hydaelyn. The reference to legs and wandering can be considered figuratively - the course of one's life is often considered a journey of sorts despite not having a destination.
Verse 1 is Hydaelyn singing her song to us, for we are her children and may we walk in the light of the crystal. Again, the figurative form of walking is used. She speaks as a mother who seeks to offer succor without withholding freedom (or at least so we would believe).
The Choruses I think of as the suggestions each party provides. On one side, we see the Ascians tirelessly working, provoking and acting on their plans to deal with the parasite problem. On the other, we see Hydaelyn telling us to Hear, Feel, Think in her defence - something the starshower made us familiar with.
Verse 2 is very insightful. It describes the Ascians' philosophy and argument. They are a shunned but determined race, not dissuaded by the agony they have been forced to suffer or the lies told about them being the root of all evil. Under Hydaelyn's light, they cannot live in their bodies and have been forced to discard them for a metaphysical existence (NIER-style). And meanwhile, the planet continues to suffer from Hydaelyn's invocation of a cycle of extreme polarities, now to the point where the damage of the seventh cycle will be permanent.
I've marked the epilogue as being from Hydaelyn's perspective, but it may in fact be from both. The future is in our hands and we must needs deal with the problems of the world if we are to survive.
My point:
Light and Darkness are not tantamount to good and evil. They are two sides in conflict, but neither is wrong. I am suggesting that this song portrays the Ascians as victims of Hydaelyn's arrival to the planet, seeking to return their world to a state before she existed. And we, the children of the Land, are faced with the dilemma of how this eon-old conflict is to be resolved, especially with the complication of having been selected by Hydaelyn as her champion in this war.
This is, of course, not helped by the fact that Lahabrea is trying to pull a Barthandelus.
Re-examining "Answers" and the nature of Ascians
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10-02-2013, 05:45 PMCatapultRe-examining "Answers" and the nature of Ascians
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10-02-2013, 06:26 PMStarDrake
Really good summary, Thal. It brings up a point that I've been considering for a while now, myself: I can't help but feel like we aren't getting the entire story concerning Hydaelyn, the Primals, and the previous eras.
While the Ascians clearly enjoy a little moo-ha-ha every now and then, ultimately nobody in this story is driven to do evil for evil's sake; Gaius and many of the other Garleans, for example, are legitimately convinced they are on a righteous mission to bring civilization to Eorzea (and Gaius brings up a lot of good, stinging points about the Twelve which are perhaps better saved for another thread). So what are the Ascians trying to do here? What, exactly, do they want to see happen in the wake of the destruction of the Mothercrystal? One presumes that returning the world to its "previous state" may not be quite so conducive to our continued survival, but on the other hand, we don't actually know that. And they're certainly taking a hostile stance, but they seem to think that negotiation simply isn't on the table.
More suspicious is Hydaelyn's behavior. At first our interactions with Hydaelyn seem like the simplest thing, go gather crystals and be a bearer of light, be a shiny hero et cetera...
... and on second glance, that still holds completely true. In a situation where our antagonists have fairly complicated reasons for doing what they do, Hydaelyn has been awful scarce with details of just why we should be doing this or why anything other than confrontation is an option. In fact, dear old Mothercrystal seems awfully insistent that we confront these foes, and nothing else.
It's easy enough to write this off as "simple plotting", but as anyone with 1.0 experience or who's been paying proper attention to the ARR Garlean stuff, the writers of XIV are never that simple.
There's another facet of this that comes to mind, but I feel like that might almost have to be it's own thread. -
10-02-2013, 06:53 PMCatapult
Yeah, FF lore is always deep, no matter the game.
Take XIII for example. Barthandelus wants to kill millions of people simultaneously to crack open Etro's gate and summon "the maker", Bhunivelze (sound familiar?). But in XIII-2, you find out that there is a lot more to that maker that Barthandelus neglected to tell you about, with XIII:LR set to crack open even more of that lore.
Something tells me that Hydaelyn is simply seeking to protect herself. And if we like the planet the way it is, we are probably her most willing champions. -
10-02-2013, 07:11 PMSkies
Just to be sure on one thing, when he says "The light... It binds them", I think he's just reffering to the bond between you and the scions. Notice that he says that right before getting his ass kicked by the collection of you and the scions
"It binds them" there in particular seems to refer to the bonds between you all, specially given he mentions 'they are too many', not so much binds as shackles but as in bonds.
Or could be wrong, but that particular line is the only thing out of your theory i'd have to disagree with.
(I do have my own particular theory that Zodiark and Hydaelyn are both entieties of the same sort, world-entieties, both in a way trying to compete to stay in the same land/body for whatever reason, i'm still convinced that the dark crystal we saw at the end was Zodiark. Your reading of the Answers theme fits into that too, neither is more alien than the other, though perhaps one is 'newer' to the playing field) -
10-02-2013, 09:20 PMCatapultI hadn't thought of it that way. Thanks for the alternative perspective. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Skies
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10-02-2013, 11:57 PMRoclThat was my understanding as well, and while I don't fully agree with your analysis of Answers it does provide interesting discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Catapult
Specifically the lines
being a reference to the physical predicament of the Ascians.Quote:
Our souls have been torn and our bodies forsaken.
Bearing sins of the past, for our future is taken.
I may spend some time reading the Unending Journey later-- but do the Sylphs still refer to those with the Echo as "Woken Ones"? I often thought of that being rather important when compared with Susan's imperative "Sleep on." Though it does seem pretty clear that Susan's voice is supposed to be Hydaelyn. Before we knew the place was, well, conscious, I had often thought of Susan's voice as Llymlaen or Nymeia controlling the fates of our poor adventurer souls. (I liked Llymlaen due to the prominence of the seagull at the end of Futures Perfect)
Damn, I didn't realize there was a 1000 character limit or some such malarkey... shows how much I've posted on here since ARR. Anyways, I've gotten way off topic now, but at the end of Futures Perfect the Scion assigned to your starting city refers to you as Woken as well and that bird may not actually be a seagull but god bless youtube.
This interpretation of the song and the revelation of the Ascian god leaves me to wonder who exactly Nael van Darnus was thrall to; the obvious answer seems to be Bahamut but he blergho. He speaks of a "land bereft of the crystal's light" and light would imply not-Zodiark. Darnus' desperation would make him liable to Ascian influence though... and the connection of Ascians to voidsent might explain the Lambs of Dalamud's connection to the Void as well-- simply preying on those praying to a now defunct Allag construct.
HOLY CRAP, I'M SORRY I'M BOUNCING OFF TANGENTS.
Something else interesting to note is the Hear vs Listen. In your interpretation it's curious (and I feel lends credence to your interpretation overall) that Hydaelyn wishes us passive. -
10-03-2013, 02:08 AMTheodric
I'm starting to wonder if Hydaelyn has 'tempered' the Warriors of Light and that they're effectively slaves to her will. I can't quite put a finger on it but by helping her I believe they may be furthering a selfish cause that benefits Hydaelyn more than anyone else, especially since 'good' and 'evil' are largely a matter of perspective.
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10-03-2013, 02:12 AMHiirNoivl
We've heard a diatribe like this before. From who? Van Darnus, who acted like he was the hero styled the villain and that everyone should look to him because Dalamud was going to purify the earth.
What did we get? The Calamity.
The policies of Hydalaen don't result in the deaths of thousands of people. Her preservation is the preservation of Eorzea.
This post is clearly Ascian propaganda! :O -
10-03-2013, 02:46 AMNaria
Just to point out, in this interpretation "sleep" could easily be directed at Zodarik himself.
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10-03-2013, 04:41 AMPiedPiper
Do the garleans really know they are / were receiveing help from teh Ascians? And if so, would they even be aware of Ascian support of Zodiark?
I love that Garleans are all about felling all these "gods" and primals for good.
Long term, I wold love a chance to fight the 12 (sicne they are just primals).
As to us being tempered by Hyd--we are explicitly told by garuda that we have been tempered by her. The assumption is that her tempering is "more benificient." -
10-03-2013, 05:27 AMNaria
Lots of spoilers in this post!
Ifrit made a similar remark along the lines of us being already tempered in 1.0 (although that term didn't exist at the time). I'm not sure how it is for new ARR characters but starting in 1.0 you never really ever see a non-echo/"tempered" version of your character. You do see one of Minfilia, but I'm not can't really say if there are any noticeable changes as I'm not too familiar with Ul'dah's 1.0 starting storyline.
One thing to consider is just because the primals say you've been tempered doesn't mean you are, the echo may be exactly as advertised and just provide a form of protection against tempering. If it is a form of tempering then its different than others we've seen as the PC is not outwardly as obsessive as those tempered by the primals. Although if we've been tempered by a crystal then the Ascians likely have been as well--wouldn't that just make everything ironic considering then Gaius at that point really would have been the only one fighting for free will, even though he is a catspaw for the Asicans.
EDIT: On topic it seems to me that the lyrics of the second verse "Feel what? Learn what? See what? Hear what?" seems like more like it would be a response to the the chorus, or in this case an Ascian response to Hydaelyn. -
10-03-2013, 08:14 AMRensumas30
Who is Zodiark ?
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10-03-2013, 11:46 AMMysteltain
Zodiark is the 'One True God' according to the Ascians. He's presumably that he's the Dark Crystal we see in the Echo during the final cutscenes, but outside of that that we really don't know anything concrete.
That being said, I don't know how much of FFXII lore they plan on incorporating with the inclusion of Zodiark and possibly the other Espers, but this is what they say about him in FFXII:
I know that they in no way are going to do a straight port of him because that would be both incredibly lazy and not work with the story at all, but maybe this holds some clues to his true purpose? For example, if Lahabrea is telling the truth and that Hydaelyn is some sort of parasite--something foreign to the world--and Zodiark is, in fact, the 'One True God', then one could easily assume that Zodiark controlled the world much more differently than Hydaelyn. Hydaelyn is very laissez-faire about Eorzea, barring anything that may directly harm her survival or that of the planet itself. We see her protecting her champions in our fight against the Ultima Weapon, much like the primals will defend their followers, but that's about it. She isn't actively affecting anything else. such as killing giant monsters, or performing divine interventions for the every-day person. She lets the people live their lives and choose their own paths.Quote:
“Strongest of the scions created by the gods, they feared his growth, and so kept him a child. So indomitable is his strength that all things are by him twisted and pressed into oblivion. He alone fashions the laws governing all things, and administers punishment in place of the gods. So is he Keeper of Precepts, and his authority is absolute.”
—Clan Primer Bio
But what if Zodiark was different. What if he actively controlled the world? What if he decided who lived and who died, whether the land would be bountiful or barren? Perhaps the Ascians (echoing Gaius' words, no less) are fed up with this 'silent god' and wish to bring order back to the land. At that point, well, they're no different than the Garleans, but unlike our armor-clad adversaries, they potentially have the absolute power to do so.
Now, as I said, this is all conjecture based on a text-snippet from a different game, but I don't think they'd have name-dropped Zodiark and not intended for us to remember just what he is, and capable of. -
10-03-2013, 03:50 PMRannie
mmm i don't know if I can agree with that about the song or not... However I will say one thing. Good and Evil are determined by actions. With the way the ascians are going at it. Lying.. manipulating...possession, ushering in chaos and power weapons for destruction's sake and not caring whether the rest of Eorzea lives or dies, That sounds pretty evil. Where as with Hydaelyn, she's for preserving the land, it's freedom and it's people. She also wants as little casualities as possible, why else would she chose just "one" to be the champion of her cause, and it pains me to say this but it includes the Garleans. (excuse me while I go wash my mouth out with soap for saying that) I would say it's more of a fight like Cosmos Vrs Chaos from Dissidia... we are her champions who fight the battle against the evil macho ugly (some not so ugly) bad guys. This storyline is a very classic fantasy storyline that I've read in sooooo many books (Ie: Wheel of Time, the Belgariad, The Mallorean, The Tamuli the Elenium)
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10-10-2013, 03:52 AMSilentio-Gigorious
Id like to think that the "echo" plays a part in Hydaelyn's "corruption" if you will.
Its strange that only a few people (besides yourself) possess Echo and the works of the Scions are quite remote. If its a gift from Hydaelyn, then what is its true purpose. -
10-10-2013, 09:49 AMEnkidohActually, 1.0 clearly showed the player character is not the only with the Echo - there were plenty of Echo users shown, but with varying degrees of potency - it's how Minfilia was able to run a large organization, the Path of the Twelve, consisting totally of Echo users (some were shown to only have mastery of languages, such as a lalafell who boasted it was quite profitable for him, while others could view other peoples' memories clearly yet have no understanding of foreign languages - Minfilia specifically was shown in 1.0 to not understand beastman languages and instead have to call on the player to translate). Specifically, in both 1.0 and ARR it was stated the player's ability in the Echo was unusually strong though, so it's obvious then that the narrative would refer more to the player's ability instead of other people though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silentio-Gigorious
The reason why it doesn't seem there's a lot of other Echo users is because Minfilia actually explained in 1.0 that Echo-users tend to experience a lot of contempt and persecution from 'normal' people and hence usually hide their abilities (for instance, in 1.0 there was shown a little lafafell girl from a noble Ul'dah family who had literally been thrown out on the street by her parents when she started having Echo visions), hence why the Path of the Twelve existed, it was not just a research guild to try and understand the Echo's nature, but also provide a sanctuary for those newly 'waken' to the Echo.
I was somewhat disappointed the new ARR story somewhat shoves the Echo aside after only giving it a cursory explanation (and the Path being re-purposed and reorganized into the Scions of the Seventh Dawn), as Minfilia went into major detail about it in 1.0. -
10-11-2013, 03:28 AMmr_wazzabi
What language do the ascians sing in the song? How do you know these lyrics if it's not english?
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10-11-2013, 03:58 AMAlenore
The whole song is in English.
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10-11-2013, 05:25 AMSilentio-GigoriousWow, these are the kind of details i miss being a new ARR player - To be honest im a little disappointed in the lack of finer details in the main scenario of ARR, but its find finding this stuff out in my own time outide of the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enkidoh
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10-11-2013, 11:00 AMCatapultThe echo offers comprehension of languages. But then that is slightly beside the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by mr_wazzabi
This is a titular song setting world-context, not something our character directly experiences in-game. -
10-24-2013, 01:20 AMNeruMew
Very interesting post, as it was said before, gives a lot to discuss, I don't agree nor disagree, Though I would change some things, or well, better said see some things different (but it's too long to get into it right now)
So I just wanted to add:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catapult
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skies
It could easily mean both things. It can be seen with the direct meaning of they are all bound together (with his friends as they all seem to work as one and blah), but it could also have the underlying meaning that they are all blindlessly bound to Hydaelyn. As someone said before Garuda explicitly says it, well, ifrit too maybe, they may not say "YOU ARE BOUND TO THE CRYSTAL" but they say they are inmune to their influence as if they had already been claimed by someone else, AKA Hydaelyn. -
10-24-2013, 01:30 AMNeruMew
Also I would like to add that the echo could be simply the connection between you and Hydaelyn. If we go down by the path where we -as player characters (lol)- have been tempered by her, it could be the way she connects with us and communicates, we only see what she shows us, she's the one doing the translations or replaying scenes from the past for you, she chooses who she wants to see what hence why it's different for every character.
As was said before, yes, evil and good could be seen depending on how we act accordnig to our beliefs, not simply by our beliefs. And Hydaelyn could be manipulating us for her own gain, seeing as how we are supposedly tempered by her, under her control.
And the theory about Zodiark and Hydaelyn being both -world- entities or -gods- is very interesting as well, and it would explain the rivality between Ascians and the ones that follow the crystal :P
Anyway! There's a lot to go on about, but those are the points I wanted to touch/remark for now. -
10-24-2013, 05:18 AMKlutz64
I think maybe a few lines in the song might be referring to the Ascians, but in general the song is simply about Eorzea's history of destruction and rebirth ("In one fleeting moment... ...for anew it doth grow") and the struggle to finally end this cycle ("Look to those who walked before to lead those who walk after"/The entire second verse)
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10-25-2013, 10:35 AMJeniLinsky
Of possible interest: The word "Ascian" is not made up, or a misspelling of "Asian." It means "one who lives in the tropics," from the ancient Greek ἄσκιος, literally 'without a shadow'.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ascian -
10-26-2013, 08:20 AMfiniteHPWhich was very significant in 1.x.Quote:
Originally Posted by JeniLinsky
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11-27-2021, 08:24 PMLivilda
Wow, cool, what an insightful and poignant discussion, it's right on the money for Shadowbr--
HOLY SHIT THIS THREAD IS FROM 2013 -
11-27-2021, 09:14 PMsymbiote129Yo, you've done this on purpose, Livilda.Quote:
Originally Posted by Livilda
Actually, even though they aren't like they were in 1.0 (as in they literally didn't have shadows in that FFXIV version), they kinda still don't have a "shadow" in a sense that the majority of people in Hydaelyn don't really know much of their origin. Only few people + certain Sharlayans are perhaps the only ones in the know of what these Ascians motivations, origins and so forth are.
To the common people they might not even know how much the Ascians were involved in the history of the world post-Sundering. Sure, there are legends surrounding these hooded people but that's that for the common people. They just know Umbral Calamaties happened but not necessarily that the Ascians were involved in those events or even the creation of the Void, the current state of the 13th Shard. They don't leave "shadows" to follow their secrets.