perhaps we aren't using warrior properly?

excuse my bad grammar, but this post got me thinking

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Originally Posted by Makeda

When people said the class was weak, Yoshi, in more polite words, told them to "L2P":

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y; Earlier today, I was told by a player that Warriors are weaker than Paladins
y; They are harder to play
f; It’s more technical
y; You need to bring in a lot of the the additional (skills?) to get it fully out
y; But really, in development team, warrior are really strong, and it’s more stable
y; So right now it looks like Paladins can hold the enmity and tank, however
y; honestly Warriors are really strong.
y; Players haven’t researched enough so I would like players who are up for a challenge to stand up and play.
y; We the development team really recommend Warriors

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http://gamerescape.com/2013/09/20/tg...h-translation/

I suspect that the devs feel the current crop of warriors and those healing them are doing it all wrong. Probably because too many people are trying to boost mitigation instead of self-healing.

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perhaps the devs are correct and we,the community, havent found the proper way to truly ultizied war tanks. after all, alot of players keep assuming that we should try to mold the war damage mitigation like the pld instead in a completely different way. instead of the community waiting for the devs to do something, maybe we should take it upon ourselves to find a new way to reduce damage for war via cross skills.

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Originally Posted by Makeda

folks need to stop trying to play a shieldless paladin, and go play a warrior - IF after doing that it stil comes back weak, Yoshi might pay more attention.

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indeed

i think we should stop trying to build the warrior as a shield tank, but maybe as a absorption tank ?

show devs playing level 50/HM primal battles with warriors, and i'll believe there's nothing wrong with warriors. yes, warriors are strong up until they hit hard mode... after that, it all goes down the drain.

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Originally Posted by thinkmad

show devs playing level 50/HM primal battles with warriors, and i'll believe there's nothing wrong with warriors. yes, warriors are strong up until they hit hard mode... after that, it all goes down the drain.

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Ok. May I ask you (and in extension every lvl 50 war) what cross skills are you using currently? Let start there to see what exactly leading to war downfall in endgame content such as bahamut coil.

Agree 100% People continuously take War's self heals out of the equation 'because cooldowns' (lolwut? IB>infuriate>IB>vengeance>debuffcombo>berserk>crossclass?>IB, rinse repeat) and conveniently go the exact opposite when talking about Pld.

What's this we the community? Don't go speaking for me about your lack of ability to play a warrior, my warrior kicks ass and I like it just the way it is. Just because you can't figure it out doesn't mean it's broken.

The problem I think is mostly what people are used to and seeing -20% damage and assuming that is better than 25% hp. Let’s take a look at some examples:

Let’s say both Pal and War have 10,000 hp (number picked for simple math). They are both about to take a 5,000 point attack. The paladin has -20% damage from shield stance while the warrior has +25% hp, taking his total to 12,500.
Now the Pal takes the 5k hit – 1k for the 20% damage reduction and is left with a total of 6k hp. (10k-4k)
The War takes the 5k with no extra mitigation and is left with 7,500.

So in this case with no cool downs used the Warrior is left with more HP and in a better spot to take more damage than the Paladin. But let’s take a look at what would happen if the paladin could block this damage.

Let’s assume he blocks 25% of the damage with his shield. Thus, 5k hit -1k from Shield stance leaves 4k, -25% from shield block leaves 3k hp. So the Paladin then takes 3k damage and has 7k hp left which still puts the warrior in a better spot.

Now you can start to figure in Cool downs, which both tanks have but the paladin has more useful cool downs but the warrior has abilities to self-heal which many neglect to look at. I will go into this more in a later post when I have some more spare time.

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Originally Posted by Ryker77

The problem I think is mostly

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People just need to stop thinking of both classes just being tank and played the same way. There are ways to play both classes and get similar outcomes. If they were meant to be played the same they would combine to make one tank class instead of 2 classes.

Thats because War self-heals isnt that great. you have to stack 3 buffs (one of which causes you to have 5 seconds without skills), and then use 3 abilities to be able to get inner beast to heal for a decent amount. ive gotten it up to about 2.2k. then you can invigorate and then do it again. This is nice, but it takes like 15-20 seconds to do all of this, it isnt an emergency thing.

And then there is storms path. you have to use 3 attacks, to heal for about 110. which isnt that much when you have 7400hp. especially considering in the time it takes you to heal 110dmg, in a BEST case scenario has done 2 auto attacks for about 800 a piece. In that rough example, your heal reduces auto attack damage by 5%? Chances are youve eaten an attack for 1-2k as well.

Self heals are nice, but aside from the extremely long inner best combo, its practically nonexistant.

edit: my cross skills are. flash, provoke, internal release, second wind and.... uh.. convalecense

i dont have TOO much trouble on anything weaker than titan since i have such a large HP pool to give healers some wiggle room, but i feel like PLD is a damage mitigation tank, and war is a self healing tank, and while pld has abilities and a shield to pump of def and reduce lots of damage, war's heals alone dont take much stress off of the healers in tough situations. Storms path needs to heal at least 300-400.

pld removes stress from healers by needing cures less often, war needs heals just as fast, but for alot more of them to top off, which i feel adds stress to healers.

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Originally Posted by Mishakai

What's this we the community? Don't go speaking for me about your lack of ability to play a warrior, my warrior kicks ass and I like it just the way it is. Just because you can't figure it out doesn't mean it's broken.

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Ok, you are misunderstanding what I'm trying to do here.what I'm trying to do is to see what crosskills are war tanks are using. Because as of now a lot of pugs/FCs/etc is passing on war tanks for pld because apparently war seem to have trouble in endgame content such as bahamut coils. If this thread seem like I'm questioning your competence as a tank, its not; however, if I'm if implying thru some means , then I'm sorry for any offense. I just want to know how to help war tank from being obsolete by the community standards.


Btw what cross kills are you guys are using? We can start there to see what can be improved.

I've not had issues so far but then again I've not done any HM primals yet, I look forward to seeing how I'll shape up in them.