Getting DoH/DoL more involved in endgame progression... (two ideas)

I feel like for a game that goes as far as making crafters and gatherers actual classes it doesn't fit them all too well into the endgame (or during the main scenario, for that matter), at least no more than you'd expect of a trade-skill in another game (like FFXI, but I think that was more involving, even). It seems to come down to the tomestone grind endgame design that I don't like (for lots of reasons). Here are two solutions which I think would make the game more exciting, inclusive, and community-building.

I'm going to split this into two parts for both types of classes. This is going to be a very long post, so feel free to only read the part that may interest you or skip it entirely. If you like long posts, feel free to give it a thumbs up. Whatever is fine.

(Note: Given the game is released and sort of stuck in its ways at the moment, I'm not saying they should replace and revamp things entirely. That may be unreasonable. However, we can look to the future for an opportunity to implement such systems.)

Part 1 - Disciplines of Hand Endgame

The question "how do you balance dungeon loot versus crafted gear?" often comes up, but I think the solution is just to combine them. Make most endgame loot crafted, but also make it so you have to do dungeons to access it and it can't be traded or sold.

How? Well, have it so that crafters can use materials (or weaker equipment) found in other players inventories and have the result stay in that inventory. This could be done with a system similar to materia request. This is just the basic idea, I'm sure there are many ways to implement this into the game. My suggestion goes along the following:

Dungeons (or whatever else) drop special, untradeable crafting materials or equipment with non-impressive item levels instead of regular named dungeon loot (aetherial drops can stay as is). These items could also be purchased with tomes (so players who don't get something will feel they are moving closer to their goal with every run*). To get the piece of loot you want you'll have to collect something like 2 to 3 of these special crafting items from one or several pieces of content. Given that players need multiple drops, each individual drop shouldn't be especially rare.

Players then also obtain various gathered materials also required for the recipe (rarer/expensive stuff from gatherers or wherever else, but never exclusively from tomes). Then have it so you can request crafters of the appropriate class and level to complete this recipe, exactly as materia works**. The big question is how similar to the crafting process this should be. What happens when they fail? Can this HQ? If you wanted to play it simple, make it so failures doesn't lose any materials or failure doesn't lose any special loot materials and there are no HQs. Allowing for more room for failure and success (HQ) means crafters will be able to differentiate themselves (as Disciplines of War/Magic do out in dungeons and such). This means players will come to rely on FC/LS members they can trust (i.e. crafters of a FC become vital to the progression process, no different from tanks and healers) or seek those out by reputation. It doesn't really matter too much, as long as crafters are involved. If you ask me, I would have it so failure only loses the normal ingredients (good for gatherers) and HQs are possible, but quite difficult to obtain. (Alternatively, you could have it so dungeon loot ingredients are lost, but in return they are not particularly rare and failing such a recipe is more expected. Whatever.)

Aside from making crafters matter, consider what this could mean for variety. Instead of just doing the dungeon with the best tome returns, you'll want to

I know I'm mainly talking about endgame here, but there is no reason it can't apply to lv. 15 dungeons and on (or special loot from guildleves, seasonable events, FATEs, etc., etc.). There is also no reason why it couldn't apply to any recipe in the game for that matter. Seems like a good system to have in the game where crafters are suppose to be important.

Anyway, the inspiration of this system comes from Monster Hunter. You take that system, apply it to more than just individual monsters, and make it so the NPCs are not the ones crafting your equipment.

*: I would go as far as suggest that every time someone in a party obtains a piece of rare loot, everyone else should get a small amount of tomestones. Perhaps grant an additional bonus for passing something. Something rather small, only a handful or two of tomes (so as not to overshadow the loot). It also softens the blow of "nothing but mage stuff is dropping" or "dungeon stinks for dragoons".

**: If you ask me, things clearly worked better in 1.0. You flagged yourself for wanting repairs or materia melded and a crafter came up to you and did it. I would prefer if they brought that back and then included in this system into that. Depending on how the system is done (fails, HQs), a confirmation may be necessary. I like the idea of putting repairs, melds, and craft requests on your retainer and crafters being able to access these through a "Request Board" found at their guild, home, or in other settlements.


Part 2 - Disciplines of Land Endgame

This is a separate idea, but I also feel like gatherers are also lacking in their endgame participation. I also feel like these classes fall short of having an endgame experience and are even less intertwined with how players progress. To me, it makes the most sense that DoLs would work with DoHs/DoMs to access greater bounties. My idea, very basically, is having endgame gatherers access instances that also requires four other players on combat classes and obtain loot that way. As you can imagine this can work hand and hand with the system for special ingredients I mentioned above. So one (or more) gatherer enters an instance (a dungeon of some sort would be best) with four other combat class players and items are acquired in some way by completing that instance in a way that makes the gatherer feel useful. Bunch of ways you can do this... here is my suggestion:

First off, I think such a system would replace the need of "hard mode" dungeons (excluding the Garlean ones, which I feel should get true hard modes). Also likely replaces the need of "treasure maps" depending on what those would be.

My main inspiration for this type of content is a mix of FFXI's Moblin Maze Mongers and Nyzul Isle. I envision something both customizable and randomized and also non-linear. A gatherer creates a certain type of dungeon through some form of input and players must clear that dungeon. The dungeon should use the "tilesets" of all pre-45 dungeons. These tilesets may be limited to or shared between individual disciplines. (e.g. Copperbell Mines works well with miners, Sastasha Seagrot for fishing (Temple of Qarn for sand-fishing, even), even something like Haukke Manor could work for botany if they include the hedge-maze like area in front of the house).

The map could have randomized placement of rooms, with no real decided end or beginning. Objectives could also be modified, add additional bosses, etc. Maybe even non-combat objectives for rooms, like what Nyzul Tower had. This provides a lot of variety, especially if using the system in Part 1 to make players move from content to content. Personally, I feel like randomization should only go as far as switch in or out whole rooms and their placement. I don't like complete randomness (although a non-linear layout means little room for rigid planning).

In these "expedition" dungeons, gatherers will be the ones leading the party. They would unlock rooms and activate combat scenarios through their gathering activities. I imagine the basic scenario being the DoL spawning enemies with every attempt at a node, with more difficult items spawning more difficult enemies. Their combat companions would have to defeat these enemies, while protecting the DoL. I can also imagine scenarios where a DoL stealth passed some enemies to open a shortcut for the other party members. There should be two loot pools: one for the DoL and one for the DoW/M. Tough bosses should also play a major role. I'd go as far as taking the special bosses required for relic weapons and putting them into here. In addition to item drops, players should also obtain tomestones for participating/defeating bosses.

Grouping in duty finder would work pretty much the same, 4 + 1, with the latter deciding the specifics of the dungeon. Players would probably have to queue for specific tilesets (which likely would always mean at least one specific boss always appearing if they are required for relic or whatever progression).