BLM Rotation: Thunder II or Thunder III and when to incorporate Swiftcast ?

Which should we use in our rotations?

It seems like the consensus of a solid rotation is:

Blizzard III > Thunder IIorIII > Fire III > Fire I > 500 mana > Blizzard III - {Using all Thunder and Fire 3 Procs}


When do you guys incorporate Swiftcast most efficiently and any1 have hard numbers comparing Thunder II or III?

I like to save Swiftcast just in case I need to do a quick cure or a quick sleep.

I don't understand the reasoning for Thunder II. You get an extra tick for Thunder III and it just costs .5 seconds longer. Are we unable to take advantage of that extra tick? Does it interfere with your initial fire rotation somehow?

Also, according to XIV DB, if you cast thunder 3 your cloud has more potency then thunder 2. As in the cloud buff is different depending on the level of thunder that you cast.

Edit: I think a point that a lot of people may be glossing over is that, if thunder mechanics work the way we think it does: you cannot get a Thunder 3 proc from a Thunder 1 thundercloud. See here: THM skills. If thundercloud procs from a Thunder I cast, you get a 240 potency nuke. If thundercloud procs from a Thunder II cast, you get a 295 potency nuke. If thundercloud procs from a Thunder III cast, you get a 340 potency nuke.

I.E. If you cast Thunder 1 and get Thundercloud, you can cast Thunder 3 but it will still be a 240 potency nuke only.

I've been debatin this issue myself actually, bcuz if you use Thunder II and then resume your normal rotation, you will be at full mp already, but thunder III will have you at your full while still casting, hence removing time from the normal rotation.

Half a second is pretty long still, but I am just wondering the downstream effects on my dps by going with the higher poten spell that takes longer, cuz from my understanding the real reason behind the thunder spells at higher lvls is to be a filler for your mp to max out (or the boss fight starter, as to not pull aggro), tho I may be wrong.

The reason Thunder II is better is what Zykor said. Using Thunder II your mana just hits full as you start your rotation again. With thunder III you lose 0.5 seconds. Over five minutes this adds up while parsing. I tested both thunder II and thunder III to see which gave me the bigger numbers and thunder II did. However, I use thunder III whenever it procs, obviously.

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Originally Posted by KomoChameleon

The reason Thunder II is better is what Zykor said. Using Thunder II your mana just hits full as you start your rotation again. With thunder III you lose 0.5 seconds. Over five minutes this adds up while parsing. I tested both thunder II and thunder III to see which gave me the bigger numbers and thunder II did. However, I use thunder III whenever it procs, obviously.

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Not debating the first part, but the last sentence. Why? Using Thunder III on cloud procs doesn't give you any kind of free damage. If you use Thunder II it gives iirc 240ish potency for cloud procs(no matter if you hit T1, T2 or T3 to "use" that proc). If you use Thunder III, I think its 290ish potency for cloud procs(again you can use any thunder spell and its all the same potency). It's all listed right in the tooltip.

I will wait to see hard numbers before I make any decision about the spells in rotation(especially because atm parsers are all retarded and not trustworthy).

Not sure, i normally use thunder 1 only and thunder 3 if procs. Im not sure if its correct but my dps is consistent and good compared to others havent tried thumder2 though. Reason i choose 1 is because in amdapor keep, chimera hydra and other primals you need to constantly move around. So sometimes thunder2 wont finish casting before being targeted by aoe

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Originally Posted by Cinge

Not debating the first part, but the last sentence. Why? Using Thunder III on cloud procs doesn't give you any kind of free damage. If you use Thunder II it gives iirc 240ish potency for cloud procs(no matter if you hit T1, T2 or T3 to "use" that proc). If you use Thunder III, I think its 290ish potency for cloud procs(again you can use any thunder spell and its all the same potency). It's all listed right in the tooltip.

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Because you're still casting Thunder III. Think about what other things Thunder III has over Thunder I, besides the up front potency. Think DoT length and itself proccing Thundercloud.

No , read what he said. He uses Thunder II as the cast but uses Thunder III for procs. I asked why. It really doesn't matter, but I've heard and seen info being passing around that using Thunder III for procs is free damage, when its not. Because the proc damage is based on what spell you used to trigger that proc(ie did you cast Thunder 1 , 2, or 3). What spell you use to "eat" the proc doesn't matter.

Though I would like to see data on say you cast Thunder II, then use III for procs. What dot is re-applied, is it II or III and does that effect the potency of future procs or does it use II's cloud potency until you manually overwrite it with a III cast(ie not a proc) or II falls off and you cast a III instead.


Again cloud procs potency is based on the Thunder rank you casted to start the dot ticking. Thunder III gives 345 potency cloud procs, II gives 295 potency cloud procs and I gives 240 potency cloud procs. Using II at first, then III for procs has no advantage, unless of course it applies a III dot re-application when you use the III on proc , which then in turn changes future proc potency to 345 from 295, but I've seen no data for that, maybe I'll test it myself.