Excessive ammounts of ACC on gear.. is it dead weight?

Only my chest, pants and belt have ACC on them, but that's already enough to put me way above the hit cap for level 50 monsters, at least according to this unofficial hit cap table:

http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=293


Since I won't be doing Bahamut's Coil anytime soon, any more seems like overkill (does that place even have monsters above level 50?). Don't remember the last time I missed a single attack, even with so little ACC on gear.. Just seems like ACC is a fairly lackluster stat right now..

Would it be worth to wear lower level items if they have no ACC but more overall useful stats on them than a higher level piece with massive amounts of ACC (looking at you Darklight)?

I dont know if we have 100% of the needed informaton for that yet. Basically each point of accy is worth 0 after cap. If the lower piece of gear loses 1 str and 10 useless accy to gain 2 crit it probably isnt worth it. But basically we need an actual value to each stat. Im gonna play around with it when im off tomorrow, in the dragoon rotation thread I posted napkin math ep values for all stats but accy, but I want something more concrete and based off enterable stat values.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xyaie

I dont know if we have 100% of the needed informaton for that yet. Basically each point of accy is worth 0 after cap. If the lower piece of gear loses 1 str and 10 useless accy to gain 2 crit it probably isnt worth it. But basically we need an actual value to each stat. Im gonna play around with it when im off tomorrow, in the dragoon rotation thread I posted napkin math ep values for all stats but accy, but I want something more concrete and based off enterable stat values.

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Yeah, seems just really silly they would put so much ACC on gear when missing attacks seems to never happen to begin with against same level targets (at least I can't remember ever missing an attack in Amdapor Keep, even with minimal ACC on gear).

Been reluctantly switching out pieces from Wanderer's Palace and Amdapor Keep for items as low as level 44, just to avoid ACC.. doesn't feel right, but when ACC does squat, trading ~3 Str for 10 Crit/Speed/Det seems reasonable (aside from loosing alot of Defense and Magic Defense).

Hope we get some real numbers on this soon.

What we would probably call "evasion" is tied to mob level. If you are bare naked fighting lv.50 mobs, you will have a hit rate of ~95%. You really only need one, possibly two, pieces of ACC gear to reach 100% hit rate on anything before Bahamut's Coil.

Use the formulas on that BLITZBALL website to make nitty-gritty comparisons between gear. Despite having lower STR, you will find some gear meets or exceeds DL since it doesn't waste stat space on ACC.

Last week, I calculated 4STR ~ +1 WS damage and 24 crit ~ 1.66% crit rate. DET is about half as potent as STR at raising damage. You can use this as a reference point if you don't feel like plugging numbers into a calculator all afternoon. :D

Monk Darklight gear has an overly excessive amount of accuracy on it. With every slot of Darklight and my relic +1 weapon I have 511 accuracy. I've heard that the accuracy cap in Bahamut's Coil is 461. So that means I have 50 accuracy that is completely useless on my character, and could be another stat like crit or determination.

The best alternative is to use crafted gear that is overmelded with stats that can replace accuracy, but doing this can be extremely expensive. The two-star crafted gear (ilevel 70) has base stats that are on par with Darklight gear when made high quality, but each piece costs 1125-2250 philo tomes to create, and there is probably a low chance of getting high quality. A more reasonable alternative is the one-star gear (ilevel 55) but you would also be sacrificing some strength for secondary stats.

So in short, the only way to get around having way too much accuracy as a Monk is to spend hundreds of thousands of gil on overmelded crafted gear.

I punched in my Monk's stats into the damage calculator stat at http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=202

Disclaimer: This analysis is only for Weapon skill dps, I must do the same thing for auto attack dps (Thanks Powercow for pointing this out)

Base stats are as follows:
428 Str
238 Det
400 Crit
429 Sk.spd
46 weapon damage
41.70 auto-attack damage

With these stats, the constant-uptime Monk buffs (no cooldowns) and a 170 potency attack (Snap Punch), my DPS is 144.28

I then increased each stat one-by-one to equal approximately the same DPS increase.

Here are the results

+4 str = 145.41 (+1.13 dps)

+28 det = 145.4 (+1.12 dps)

+24 crit = 145.42 (+1.14 dps)

+20 ss = 145.43 (+1.15 dps)

Scaling these numbers down I can conclude the following stat equivalents *at my current stat levels:

1 Str = 7 Det = 6 Crit = 5 Sk.spd

***I do not know if stats will scale like this if you have lower or higher stats than me (whether scaling is linear or not) but this is a more refined picture of what the value of each stat. Right now it looks as though Strength is the most valuable stat by far, followed by Skill Speed, Crit Rating, and Determination being very weak for Monks.

Edit: ***After further testing, I found that Determination scales linearly with Strength, while Crit and Skill Speed scale multiplicatively with Strength, meaning that the Higher your STR stat is, the more potent your Crit and Skill Speed stats will become.

That doesnt sound far from what i did with lancers. I just.. likely went a bit overboard with it: sorry for the long post, but ill add a TL: DR at the bottom. This is just for -lancers- but with how potency/stats work it likely is very close for others. tomorrow while i wait on queue i plan to make a spreadsheet and figure out using a basic rotation for each class a more accurate version for each:

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by xyaie

gonna post this here because it seems like OP put thought into crafting a good rotation. if OP would rather i post my stuff somewhere else that is fine. im the kind of person who finds myself making stuff like this http://i820.photobucket.com/albums/z...ntitled-13.jpg when i have too much free time. (that was for tera btw, a few of us did a ton of test to iron out the damage/crit rate formulas and i compiled it for each class into a spreadsheet, worked from there to find out an "ep value" for each stat, in how much a given stat would effect your character's damage)

I had a friend of mine test " http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=202 " for accuracy and its apparently pretty spot on for a level 50, but not for a level 33. No reason in reinventing the wheel. Sadly this means if this tool isnt accurate everything below this line is garbage. Ill worry about this later. this will be rough estimates, mostly doing this for my own use, because atm i have little clue what stat to even aim for. i used http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/1624731/ 's stats, as im not level 50 myself. while this lets me use disembowl (seems to outright be a "enemy takes 10% more damage", which is slightly different than "you do 10% more damage" like heavy thrust, example is 110.43 turning into 122.7 and 121.47 respectively.) however it does not let me use heavy thrust.

As i began, this is just a rough estimate, like i said when i have too much free time i do this sort of thing, sadly i do not have that atm :(.
but using this tool (using dps, so i can model skill speed later):
Str: 408 - Det: 283 - Weapon damage: 39 - Weapon AA: 39.52 - Crit: 396 - Skill Speed: 341
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spamming true thrust (150 WS potency): 75.98 dps
spamming vorpal thrust (200 WS potency): 101.31 dps
spamming full thrust (300 WS potency): 151.96 dps

so between 150 and 200 potency (a 33.3333333% increase) nets a 33.33772 increase in damage. slightly higher than expected, but likely just due to rounding

doubling the WS potency from 150 to 300 (a 100% increase) nets a 100% increase in damage

sweet. at this point it scales linearly it seems
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alright, lets just use true thrust then.
dps at 400 str: 74.74
dps at 410 str: 76.29 (offset 10, increase 2.0739%. increase per point .20739%)
dps at 420 str: 77.84 (offset 20, increase 4.1477%. increase per point .20739%)
dps at 440 str: 80.93 (offset 40, increase 8.2820%. increase per point .20705%)
dps at 500 str: 90.21 (offset 100, increase 20.6984%. increase per point .20698%)

so it looks like we have a slight diminishing return, or perhaps soft caps with str (as 410 to 420 each point stayed the same in effectiveness)
str effectiveness: ~.207
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resetting str to 408
dps at 270 det: 75.67
dps at 280 det: 75.91 (offset 10, increase .317166%. increase per point .0317166%)
dps at 300 det: 76.39 (offset 20, increase .9515%. increase per point .047575%)
dps at 340 det: 77.35 (offset 40, increase 2.22017%. increase per point .055504%)
dps at 400 det: 78.80 (offset 100, increase 4.1364%. increase per point .041364%)

i.. i was sure i was going to say there was a heavy increase in the value of determination as you increase it, but then 400 det happened. I re-ran both 340 and 400 a few times to make sure and always came up with the same results. I dont know what to say, increasing value then soft cap?
effective value.. uh.. .044?
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reset determination to 283
dps at 370 crit: 78.70
dps at 380 crit: 78.96 (offset 10, increase .330368%. increase per point .0330368%)
dps at 400 crit: 79.49 (offset 20, increase 1.00381%. increase per point .0501906%)
dps at 440 crit: 80.54 (offset 40, increase 2.33799%. increase per point .0584498%)
dps at 500 crit: 82.12 (offset 100, increase 4.34562%. increase per point .0434562%)

followed the exact same trend as det, always staying slightly more valuable. im hoping someone finds my flaw in the 40 to 100 gap. i am sitting on a short amount of sleep and likely have the flu, i imagine its something quite simple.
effective value .046ish
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resetting crit to 396
***keep in mind with skill speed, lowering the CD of CDs is likely MORE valuble than just how often you can press a button, h owever this also means you spend more tp per second. this will ONLY be modeling how often you can press a button. Ill make a spreadsheet at some point, then add in the decided upon rotation and be able to more accurately model skill speed
dps at 400 SS: 78.92
dps at 410 SS: 79.23 (offset 10, increase .392803%. increase per point .0392803%)
dps at 420 SS: 79.54 (offset 20, increase .785606%. increase per point .0392803%)
dps at 440 SS: 80.17 (offset 40, increase 1.58388%. increase per point .0395970%)
dps at 500 SS: 82.13 (offset 100, increase 4.06741%. increase per point .0406741%)

like str, skill speed slowly grows in value it seems.
effective value when spamming nothing but skill: .0395
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Setting everything back to normal, lets do weapon damage
dps at 35 WD: 72.33
dps at 36 WD: 73.53 (offset 1, increase 1.65906%. increase per point 1.65906%)
dps at 38 WD: 75.94 (offset 2, increase 4.99101%. increase per point 2.49551%)
dps at 42 WD: 80.75 (offset 4, increase 11.6411%. increase per point 2.91027%)
dps at 45 WD: 84.36 (offset 10, increase 16.6321%. increase per point 1.66321%)

same thing as most of the secondaries. Unless im doing something wrong, there are definitely soft caps for many stats.
effectiveness per point: ~2.182

sooo per point:
WD: 2.182
str: .207
det: .04
crit: .046
*SS: .0395
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lets say str is an EP, ill set everything equal to it:
WD: 10.541
Str: 1
det: .193
crit: .222
*SS: .191

this means 1 WD is worth 10.541 str, and 1 det is worth .193 str. if you look at a piece of gear has
20 str 18 det and 19 crit:
20 * 1 = 20
18 * .193 = 3.474
19 * .222 = 4.218
4.218+3.474+20 = 27.692
that piece of gear has a value of 27.692 so you can compare it to another piece.
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-overall- i'd say Weapon damage >>>>>>> str >>>> crit > SS > det. of course, none of this is 100% yet.
oh well, time for food!

edit: crap, after all that i just discovered his numbers at: http://valk.dancing-mad.com/?page_id=179 i dont see an effective EP value for the stats themselves but i wonder how much i just reinvented (given likely less accurately).

edit 2: added weapon damage and EP

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TL: DR

lets say str is 1 EP, ill set everything equal to it:
WD: 10.541
Str: 1
det: .193
crit: .222
*SS: .191

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LiuKang

*snip*

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You're not counting your autoattack DPS. That is a very large chunk of a monk's damage. Counting autoattack, strength is still the best stat (not by as much of a landslide, but still by a very large amount) followed by determination, crit, and lastly skillspeed. The calculator also does not factor in DoT abilities, which do not play nice with skillspeed. Oh, and your average non-DoT skill's potency is not going to be 170. It's closer to 160.

Also keep in mind that on most pieces, determination costs more than other stats. This is most apparent in materia (tier 4: 6 determination or 9 crit) as well as other pieces of darklight (like the bracelets, 9str/crit, 12ss or 9str 12crit 6det). So for general gear purposes, crit (due to it being cheaper for itemization than det) > det > ss. This is assuming you're at the accuracy cap, which for some classes (cough MONK cough) is ridiculously easy to get to.

Remember that autoattacks do not scale the same as weaponskills. Determination (for some odd reason) has a much stronger bonus to autoattacks than weaponskills. And yes, I know crit rating doesn't play well with Bootshine, but even counting that (essentially just remove the % of your DPS that Bootshine is), crit is still better than determination at its inflated cost. At a 1:1 ratio, det is better. In terms of what you'll usually come across, you'll have to choose between 3crit:2det, and 3 crit wins.

Edit - Also to hell with this 1000 character limit.