[suggestions] Physical level and racial benefits.

Hello everyone!

For those of you not interested in reading my whole post, this thread is about HOW to give physical level another life if point allotment becomes class-specific. Not why physical should be removed. Proceed and give us your ideas.

I would like to make suggestions about the physical level tied to racial benefits.
But first, let's go back in time. Back during the development, it was planned to have both class ranks and physical level separated in order to measure both character growth as a whole and class growth as separate things. Having a separated physical level from class ranks allowed for experienced players to skip the low rank learning curve when starting new classes and customize your character to give it a unique "flavour" regardless of the class. However, the group of elitist players (it's not a bad thing, don't get me wrong) in the game felt they were tied up with this system, having to redistribute their point allotment at all occasions to constantly be at the top of their capacities. However, it must be said, the problem does not lie in the physical level itself, but the point allotment tied to the physical level.

In order to resolve that problem, many suggestions were proposed to tie the point allotment to class ranks rather than the physical level. This solution, however, leaves the physical level with almost no means to do what it was supposed to do: measure character growth as whole. So, many are asking to remove the physical level.

I do not share their point of view, I believe the physical level is not obsolete, it just needs to be given other tools to do what it was meant for.

The idea to tie physical attributes with the physical level came naturally during the development stages of FFXIV: a character that is more experienced is stronger (STR), has more dexterity (DEX), has more vitality (VIT), is more intelligent (INT)... and so on. Then, there is the idea to tie more abstract aspects to the physical level, such as elemental affinities. I believe we should still hang on to this idea: the physical level should be tied with "physical" aspects of our character as a whole.

With that in mind, I would like to propose a tree of talents tied with the physical level. That tree of talents would give the little extra we need to experience character growth as a whole and make our characters more unique and personalized (as opposed to clones that put all their points in the same group of stats, because it is the "right thing to do" to have maximized potential for each class. Which is more or less likely to happen with point allotment tied to class rather than physical level since not all stats have a meaning for all classes -- for example, in FFXI, everyone was expected to equip the "right" sub-job with each job, which made two mithra, the same job level, be clones [with the exception of rank 75 bonus I never got to]). The idea to go back to have physical level measure core character growth and enable another level of character customization, without hindering class growth, leaves us with few options if things remains as is. That is why I propose that this physical talent tree be based on race. Our character's race never changes, it follows us all the way from rank 1 to rank 50, from class A to class B to class C, that's why it makes a good base to tie up with physical level.

However, during development stages, it was decided that race should only have an aesthetic motivation and not advantage certain classes and penalize others. And I do stand by that, that race should primarily be an aesthetic concern during character creation. And so, to tie a racial talent tree with physical level, we need it to be organized in such a way that it does not advantages certain races and penalize others.

There are many possibilities on how this can be achieved, while having a variability with each race, even with clan and gender too. I'll present here only a few ideas, we can always add more later when the underlying concepts (keeping physical level) is approved by the development team.

1. The racial talent trees for physical level can be organized as a wide maze, where each race/clan starts at a different corner, allowing different talents at early level, but in the end allow each race/clan to pick up any (not all!) talent through precise routes in the maze.
2. A long vertical talent tree with multiple talents for each level, however, you can only pick one (1) talent for each level line. Each race/clan would either have different trees or the level line ordered differently.
3. A classic talent tree, each race/clan having its own unique talent tree OR talents ordered differently within the talent tree.

We can come up with many other ideas and they are welcomed. However, one key aspect is to make sure it is impossible to have ALL the talents when the maximum physical level is reached. Otherwise, we would be all clones then. But, obviously, it would be possible to reassign the talents under certain circumstances (price to pay, cool down timer, etc).

Possible racial bonuses for the talent could include the following: HP bonus, MP bonus, maximum accessory slot point bonus, inventory space bonus, resistance to poisons (or curses, etc) increased, +% bonus a given elemental affinity, etc. Let your creativity flow.

Thank you for reading it through.
If you have other ideas for the physical level, be sure to share it here too! :o

For those of you not interested in reading my whole post, this thread is about HOW to give physical level another life if point allotment becomes class-specific. Not why physical should be removed. Proceed and give us your ideas.

This will wake it so that certain races are better at classes than others, like Lalafell mage > Roegydn mage. It would be a mistake to start that up.

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Originally Posted by Reika

This will wake it so that certain races are better at classes than others, like Lalafell mage > Roegydn mage. It would be a mistake to start that up.

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Why would it if it's not designed to give only mage traits to Lalafell or Roegadyn?
It only depends what you put in the "talent tree" and how you put it. Because, in the end, if done properly, it gives equal chances for all races, but at different times during the advancement of physical level. :o
We don't want Lalafell mage > Roegadyn mage, but, it could happen is the Lalafell put all his talent into magical traits and the Roegadyn into battle traits (if the traits are designed to be like that). Or vice versa if the Roegadyn goes all into magical stuff and the Lalafell into something else. All races starts equal, then each character becomes more unique as physical level increase, that' it. :o
No race is more powerful than, no race is better at certain class than another, but all characters would be able to customize their race and character more in depth. Physical core growth, not based on ranks of class nor focused on any class in particular.

My spin on it...
The "Physical Level" is a good thing- even with it's point allotment so long as it is kept to Lv50 and the cap remains easily obtainable. Leveling returns are an obsolete game design that are better to serve as a tutorial than as all-important character growth. In my opinion this is where the Job system should take over- taking your salted Lv50 adventurer and merging their many different disciplines into a craft of function, taking the dynamic to a whole new level. While I think that "race envy" should be avoided, but if every job saw an interesting buff from small factors such as race and deity it would certainly be a plus in the PC diversity department.

A good example- The "Hunter"or "Ranger"- a staple job resulting from a cross of Archery and affinity with nature but what could each Race and Deity provide this job? In this aspect, I think there should be no "balanced" race option (Hyur should not be the "adept version"), nor should any race see punishment from picking this job. Furthermore- no single stat should be neglected by the job's skills, in spite of early favoring of DEX, STR and VIT, INT, PIE and WIS should be necessary in their own right for ALL martial jobs as STR, DEX and VIT should find their uses in all Magic jobs- stranding no race, no build, no character concept from being viable

Talent trees however are a failed manner of achieving this- as they push for higher level caps and create "best" builds over time... Not really something a revolutionary MMO would be made of

I think OP's idea is excellent, would make the game much more interesting and varied for sure if they added racial abilities and 'bonuses' :) It could end up working really well, and I don't want them to do away with a 'core' character progression (ie physical level or something equivalent).

As for Augury's comment on levels... can't say I'd agree with you, levels belong to an RPG and provide a core content to play through. They're by no means obsolete. Remove their importance and we're talking action games and shooters and what have you.

I also agree that getting rid of "physical levels" is not the best of ideas. I don't want to be a cookie cutter PUG or GLA! It's boring! SE gave people the ability to pick WHO you want to be, instead of what (the system is just a bit flawed). But while this Idea would be fun to play with and I would love to see a better version of physical levels implemented, I have a few ideas of my own.

We could make it so that people choose what stats improve by choosing their class. So if you are playing as Archer you gain DEX, or when you play as GLA you get VIT
You could do this by giving each stat it's own level bar and when you play as a particular class for long enough you get more points to that designated stat.
To stop people from just getting good in everything they could cap the times you can level your stats.

My other idea would be great for increasing all sorts of things. Change the Physical levels to an "Upgrade system". Instead of leveling up, the exp you gain goes to a exp pool that you can then spend on upgrades to all sorts of things. From stats to armor efficiency, how long buffs last, to even non combat abilities. (I would love to see some abilitys for exploring).
This once again could be capped, to keep people from being masters at everything. (though I hope they make the caps high, even if they make each upgrade small, I hate running out of options for growth, but that's just me) They could even make sections, so that you have a cap for stat upgrades, armor efficiency upgrades, and any other upgrades you could add.
They could even make a section for upgrades with no cap that do fun things, like give more emotes (FFXI had FOUR dances) and even temporary things like potions that turn you into monsters.

The best part of this system is that they could add anything to it, so if say they added a Airship PVP combat game, they could add upgrades for things like how much cannons do when you fire them, the max range from where you can board an enemy ship, and how much speed/maneuverability is added to your ship when you are pilot. It could add a lot of options as to how to make people look at good character development, and it could add a lot of dynamics to any systems they decide to add to the game (suddenly raid dungeon parties are about more than tanks and healers, but also how has leveled lock picking, or how is a good airship pilot. The way they could add to players growth options is truly limitless with this kind of system.

But I hope they find our suggestions and pick one (yours or one of mine they all could be great).

What i read it gives those bonuses based on race, thats where i got it would make lala mages > roeg mages. If it isnt that way, they you could leave the whole 'racial talent trees' out of it. The way it is worded, it sounds like the talent trees will be different for each race. Other than the Racial aspects of the idea, its a good idea.

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Originally Posted by Reika

What i read it gives those bonuses based on race, thats where i got it would make lala mages > roeg mages. If it isnt that way, they you could leave the whole 'racial talent trees' out of it. The way it is worded, it sounds like the talent trees will be different for each race. Other than the Racial aspects of the idea, its a good idea.

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I'm sorry for poorly wording it, it was my 3rd wall of the text at that time.

The racial talent tree idea is just an idea, the main concept behind my first post is to give another life, a greater purpose to Physical level instead of just cutting it off the game (since many were asking for it, I felt it would be a shame to lose physical level).

All the ideas posted above are great, I just hope SE picks up something for Physical Level and build on it instead of trying to take it out of the game by making point allotment to class and nothing else. I know you guys have better ideas than me, so feel free to show off and post them! :o Let's keep Physical Level an important part of our characters.