[dev1037] Targeting Issues (gamepad)

First of all: this post doesnt concern targeting with mouse. If youre using mouse you probably didnt ever experience anything described below. Players using keyboard only might have similar problems though.

OK, to the point:
Those shiny, blinking, super duper battle effects are one of 4 main reasons we have problems with targeting via gamepad (probably keyboard too). Sometimes its just impossible to see the targeting cursor in that flashy colours festival. It may look good but seriously - it makes playing less comfortable for some of us. Id like to see an option to turn off the battle effects (it would improve performance too) instead of having them even bigger (more disturbing).

I said its one of 4 main issues, now im gonna list them all:

1. instead of lame targeting mode switching, there should be additional targeting cursor for every single action. There is one for some of the abilities (for ex. provoke, taunt) and for all of the spells. If there was one for weapon skills and regular attacks it would help a lot.

This is how i see it:
Your primary targeting cursor (yellow one) is always in ALL targeting mode. Whenever you pick an action, additional targeting cursor (purple one) appears (just like it is now with spellcasting). Additional cursor works is ENEMY mode for offensive actions, or FRIENDLY mode for enhancing/healing magic (and in friendly mode you can target party members with up/down arrows/D-pad). Also, whenever offensive action is performed on a target, your primary targeting cursor should be moved to that target.

Example: Your cursor is on your character or one of the party members or a KOed target and you use Heavy Strike.

Now it works: you get system error massage: this action cannot be performed on that target. You have to close action bar (ESC or cancel button on gamepad) target what you need (possibly switch targeting mode) chose Heavy Strike.

Should be: You get additional targeting cursor working in ENEMY mode, you pick target and its done. Also your primary cursor automatically moves to that target and - if you set auto-lock to ON - locks on it.

Speaking of locking on target. For god's sake, only character should lock on target (be facing the target and move like in "strafe mode"). Camera should NOT lock. It may centre on target when lock is performed but we should be able to move it around freely .

With additional targeting cursor for every action there will be no need for Action Bar to disappear after defeating enemy, which can be very confusing too.

And of course we need <st> <stpc> <stnpc> tags for macros as well.

2. Both players and enemies move too much during battle. And Im not saying about actual moving. The problem is, almost every single attack looks like this:

Step towards the target --> attack itself --> step back.

It causes targeting left/right being a horror.
Lets say we have 8 visible party members and I am using PARTY targeting mode. Lets mark them in order from left to right:
A B C D E F G H
Lets say my cursor is on target B and i want to move to target F. I should be able to do it with clicking right arrow/D-pad 4 times. C --> D --> E --> F, simple.
But if target C leans toward target F (by attacking enemy standing close to target F) we get:
A B D E C F G H
Clicking right arrow twice at that moment moves my cursor from B --> D --> E, now C steps back and E move towards H and we get:
A B C D F G E H
Clicking right twice moves my cursor from E --> H --> A.
So after clicking right 4 times I moved 1 step left instead of 4 steps right. Then I try again and I miss target F again, and again, and hes KOed because i couldnt toss him a cure. It SUCKS.
As long players/enemies will move forward and back while performing attack, there will be problem with targeting via gamepad (and probably keyboard too).

3. Battle effects that make cursor invisible.

4. Too many people/enemies in one place. Its quite simple. The more potential targets on the screen, the harder it is to mark the one you want.
Placing Guildleves in instances would help a lot (6 parties of 8 ppl doing Dunesfolk For Dinner at the same time, at the same place - really not fun). Replacing groups of 2-3 monsters with 1 strong monster would help even more. Less enemies - less switching between targets. Sometimes party takes mob down before you can even target it. With fewer but stronger mobs it wouldnt happen. And party play would definitely benefit from it. You would actually need someone to tank/heal/buff instead of just zerging and spamming AoE cure.

This is why they are considering caps for behests as well as lowering the max number of people in a standard party.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chory

First of all: this post doesnt concern targeting with mouse. If youre using mouse you probably didnt ever experience anything described below. Players using keyboard only might have similar problems though.

OK, to the point:
Those shiny, blinking, super duper battle effects are one of 4 main reasons we have problems with targeting via gamepad (probably keyboard too). Sometimes its just impossible to see the targeting cursor in that flashy colours festival. It may look good but seriously - it makes playing less comfortable for some of us. Id like to see an option to turn off the battle effects (it would improve performance too) instead of having them even bigger (more disturbing).

I said its one of 4 main issues, now im gonna list them all:

1. instead of lame targeting mode switching, there should be additional targeting cursor for every single action. There is one for some of the abilities (for ex. provoke, taunt) and for all of the spells. If there was one for weapon skills and regular attacks it would help a lot.

This is how i see it:
Your primary targeting cursor (yellow one) is always in ALL targeting mode. Whenever you pick an action, additional targeting cursor (purple one) appears (just like it is now with spellcasting). Additional cursor works is ENEMY mode for offensive actions, or FRIENDLY mode for enhancing/healing magic (and in friendly mode you can target party members with up/down arrows/D-pad). Also, whenever offensive action is performed on a target, your primary targeting cursor should be moved to that target.

Example: Your cursor is on your character or one of the party members or a KOed target and you use Heavy Strike.

Now it works: you get system error massage: this action cannot be performed on that target. You have to close action bar (ESC or cancel button on gamepad) target what you need (possibly switch targeting mode) chose Heavy Strike.

Should be: You get additional targeting cursor working in ENEMY mode, you pick target and its done. Also your primary cursor automatically moves to that target and - if you set auto-lock to ON - locks on it.

Speaking of locking on target. For god's sake, only character should lock on target (be facing the target and move like in "strafe mode"). Camera should NOT lock. It may centre on target when lock is performed but we should be able to move it around freely .

With additional targeting cursor for every action there will be no need for Action Bar to disappear after defeating enemy, which can be very confusing too.

And of course we need <st> <stpc> <stnpc> tags for macros as well.

2. Both players and enemies move too much during battle. And Im not saying about actual moving. The problem is, almost every single attack looks like this:

Step towards the target --> attack itself --> step back.

It causes targeting left/right being a horror.
Lets say we have 8 visible party members and I am using PARTY targeting mode. Lets mark them in order from left to right:
A B C D E F G H
Lets say my cursor is on target B and i want to move to target F. I should be able to do it with clicking right arrow/D-pad 4 times. C --> D --> E --> F, simple.
But if target C leans toward target F (by attacking enemy standing close to target F) we get:
A B D E C F G H
Clicking right arrow twice at that moment moves my cursor from B --> D --> E, now C steps back and E move towards H and we get:
A B C D F G E H
Clicking right twice moves my cursor from E --> H --> A.
So after clicking right 4 times I moved 1 step left instead of 4 steps right. Then I try again and I miss target F again, and again, and hes KOed because i couldnt toss him a cure. It SUCKS.
As long players/enemies will move forward and back while performing attack, there will be problem with targeting via gamepad (and probably keyboard too).

3. Battle effects that make cursor invisible.

4. Too many people/enemies in one place. Its quite simple. The more potential targets on the screen, the harder it is to mark the one you want.
Placing Guildleves in instances would help a lot (6 parties of 8 ppl doing Dunesfolk For Dinner at the same time, at the same place - really not fun). Replacing groups of 2-3 monsters with 1 strong monster would help even more. Less enemies - less switching between targets. Sometimes party takes mob down before you can even target it. With fewer but stronger mobs it wouldnt happen. And party play would definitely benefit from it. You would actually need someone to tank/heal/buff instead of just zerging and spamming AoE cure.

---

I would love this targeting system<3 Another thing that I think would be good is if they changed the target icons. As it is it's easy to confuse it for a spell or action effect. Maybe adding an outline so it doesn't look like just an airbrush swirl. Personally, I really don't like the target icons. I'd like if they didn't constantly spin, a lighting effect to give the illusion of spinning i guess would be good but as it is i cancel my target as much as possible just so i don't have to see it lol.
Me... OCD? nah...

People not reading OP :( /bump~

Love it. Especially about the targeting macros. We need those badly. And <p0>, <p1>, etc. Although, I do like the target filtering system to a point. I believe there should be several targeting modes, like a, b, c, d, all of which have a button that you can toggle the different filters, i.e. instead of having a battle regimen button/ emote button, let that be the toggle filter button. Target mode A can be all, B can be friendly, party, and enemy, but C can be just party and enemy for the behest or regular party mode, or if you're going solo, D can be enemy and friendly. So instead of the up and down buttons being the toggle switch, they can cycle through the party list, in party filter or enemy filter when you want to cure or buff. Pressing down will select yourself, press it one more time goes to the first person in the party list. Pressing up goes to the bottom of the list. And maybe you can use this to select party members BEFORE you select your spell, although, as Chory pointed out, if you select a hostile spell, you shouldn't subselect a party member, but the closest enemy or the enemy you were last targeting. And right on about the battle effects getting in the way of the cursor. I think maybe the cursor should be larger and more gaudy, anyways, and maybe even put a glow around the target.

I like the enhancement of the battle effects. I hope the [visual] enhancement will also include vivid additional animations for particular battle effects. Example: BATTLE REGIMENS!!!!!!! Please make these combos (or some of the combos) visually distinctive--instead of just pink limbs, weapons, and monsters.