Remove the wall between the monster groups before each boss so we can pull all

Right now dungeons are (2 packs > 2 packs > boss) x3
I think they should remove the wall between the packs so people can do (4 pack > boss) x3 if they feel up to it.

This will allow people to clear dungeons faster if they are good enough.
It will also make dungeons less of a boring slog. Right now you just pull 2 packs and then spam the aoe button. You don't even need to use some of your big abilities.

With 4 groups, the damage and aoe's are high and frequent enough that they might produce a challenge. People will need to use their big abilities, they might also use utilities like cc'ing enemies to give tank some breathing room.

Dungeons are a repetitive chore and this would help fix that.

They used to be like that, and there was a massive problem with it. Back in ARR and Heavensward, I would enter ARR dungeons like Snowcloak. A tank would typically pull right up to the boss. They would typically wipe because this was not realistic to heal back then. So the tank would immediately exit in shame without a word. This happened so many times I couldn't count it.

When tanking myself, it provided a lot of anxiety and raised questions within myself such as: How many am I "supposed" to pull? How can I be sure my party is good enough? What if they want more? What if they want less? If I stop to ask, they may want me to hurry up and pull or run ahead without me, which was common. Whatever decision I make, what if it goes wrong and they are upset?

Amdapor Keep is a rather good example of some insane pulls you can do. And while it is easier now due to battle system changes, it would often require your entire team to be on point. You needed the tank to be good at mit, kiting and pulling fast, you needed the healer to actually plan to heal and be good at it, and you needed the DPS to take them down very fast before the enemies took out the tank. Since you could only guess the skill of your party based on subtle indications on the way to the first boss, it was a source of anxiety and to an extent, still is.

So SE solved that problem by adding walls.

I do agree that there is no problem with shaking it up and occasionally letting us pull 3 or 4 packs. But it shouldn't necessarily be as crazy as Amdapor Keep which, if the enemies don't melt that quick, is a recipe for anxiety and party drama.

I believe the reason it's like this now is likely because they hired lots and lots of dungeon designers and the job application form basically said "make a sample dungeon design exactly like an average dungeon is now but make the boss mechanics original and of a similar difficulty to current dungeons" and that it should be clearable in the usual timeframe of 12-20 minutes. That is actually what the job forms said.

I agree with OP. And if people wipe, then they wipe. If people feel anxious about how much they can pull, they can just communicate with their team or go with Trusts.
It's a dungeon; it's not that deep.

If you want the game to provide kid railings for having to interact with a party then why are you playing an MMO

Like honest question

Honest question: do you like the first cave in Aurum Vale? Because this is exactly what you're asking for - lots of mobs that can all be pulled at once.
In my experience, new tanks will run straightforward into the cave, pull half the mobs, the other half pulls themselves, healer dead, wipe.
New healers and DDs will fall back, get pushed into the room by one of the gas explosions, same result as above.
And when you tell them at the start "pls stick to the left wall and don't fall back", they will do neither. Result: see above.

Simple conclusion: This community cannot handle big groups of mobs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gwenkatsu

Honest question: do you like the first cave in Aurum Vale? Because this is exactly what you're asking for - lots of mobs that can all be pulled at once.
In my experience, new tanks will run straightforward into the cave, pull half the mobs, the other half pulls themselves, healer dead, wipe.
New healers and DDs will fall back, get pushed into the room by one of the gas explosions, same result as above.
And when you tell them at the start "pls stick to the left wall and don't fall back", they will do neither. Result: see above.

Simple conclusion: This community cannot handle big groups of mobs.

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I hate this line of thinking more than anything. No, sprouts/players new to tank messing up a level 47(?) dungeon meant to teach you that pulling too much is a thing, doesn't mean the entire community up to level 100 can't handle a dungeon like that. This sort of thinking is why aurum is probably not going to even teach that anymore by the time the devs rework it for trusts.

The big question would be, would the wall be removed from just before the boss, because if it is, that will be a recipe for disaster. What would happen in that case is, tank pulls all, everyone else does nothing so as not to draw enmity, tank stops at the boss arena, dies, which resets the mobs, then you pull and kill the boss. Alternatively, you again get the tank to pull everything, have the group start the boss and the tank gets teleported into the boss arena. Either way, you are skipping the killing of all the trash before the boss.

If you want to remove the walls between trash pack but not before the boss, then I have no issues, it is just the wall before the bosses.

I think you could add some bigger pulls without issue. Mt. Gulg was, iirc, the last dungeon to do this; the first pull is huge, with five groups of mobs, and the second to last pull is also pretty big.

I wouldn't want every dungeon to be all wall to wall pulls, since that's just as homogenous as the 2-2-boss thing we've got now, but they could vary it up a bit. They've done it before, even post HW.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gwenkatsu

Honest question: do you like the first cave in Aurum Vale? Because this is exactly what you're asking for - lots of mobs that can all be pulled at once.
In my experience, new tanks will run straightforward into the cave, pull half the mobs, the other half pulls themselves, healer dead, wipe.
New healers and DDs will fall back, get pushed into the room by one of the gas explosions, same result as above.
And when you tell them at the start "pls stick to the left wall and don't fall back", they will do neither. Result: see above.

Simple conclusion: This community cannot handle big groups of mobs.

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Oh yea, let's ignore the fact that the classes get pretty good abilities to handle said mobs at 50. And lack said abilities. I'm sure missing all the abilities from 50-100 definitely won't have an impact on pulling more.

Do you work at an orchard? Because they'll have to invent a new term for cherry picking because of you.

No absolutely not. You know what is going to give players who are new to MMOs anxiety out the roof? Queuing into an instance for the MSQ and then proceeding to spend the entire instance running after the group like pre-revamp prae. All that will do is breed a toxic af attitude towards dungeons where you will have people pulling ahead of the group even worse than there already is. Even now, with the limits, I have had dps and healers pull groups I was not ready to take because I had either not played in a while or was new to that tanking job just because I was taking things slow to ease my way into it.
And no, asking to slow down does nothing. Never does. Especially if you do not have a sprout tag.

The argument can be made for unsync runs, sure. If you are just there to farm the barriers do nothing good anyhow, but as long as there are other people in the group I vehemently disagree. You are going to create wow-style roulette attitude within a few months and honestly if that happens you may as well toss the rest of the game in the trash because FFXIV being a slow paced, beginner friendly MMO is its main draw outside of the MSQ.