FFxiv could use a big change in game design but what about balance

So the challenge for SE that is how to deal with job design (and overall game design choices), for said 8.0 according to Yoshi-P, will be to provide a way to make normal content engaging again.

But how can they do it without breaking balance for old content?

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Here is some popular request that we can see among the forums or reddit that I have in head, and the issue that will have to be dealth with :

1) Healers want to heal A LOT (gcd healing mandatory even with OGCD opti) :
-> Probably one of the most challenging stuff to do for SE, because you can just put brutal heal check : in savage / ult it could work, but in the end it'll stays the same with how encounters works in ffxiv : spam gcd during prog, then clean up and gcd only when needed, no need to worry about mana once timeline is set.

SE could use random raidbusters / auto crit but it was already that in ARR/HW

+ for normal content, experienced healers would still find themself damage spam with good OGCD healing use
-> Remowing OGCD healing could force experienced healers to do more gcd healing, but give the feeling of healing like ARR / HW

2) Healers want to have damage rotation :
-> This is a way to make healers more engaging for experienced healers without hurting the game too much and its design (that is based around damages), only issue would be old content, having a few more damages buttons can be easily fine, but actual caster rotation could lead to synched old content being harder

3) Change in encounter design
-> DT is testing stuff, but in the end the game can't become a dynamic hack & slash, it will stays about targetting stuff and watching cast bar / aggro list

4) tank wants to do tank stuff
-> Tank & healers are always touchy roles because in normal content most casuals players will feel pressured by any healing / tank check going on, but SE could sure pump things up a bit for tank in normal content (more tankbuster ? ).
Again, endgame is less of an issue, M6S have been giving a slap on tanks that is enough for the all patch.

5) DPS (and overall dps rotation) should be engaging / give skill expression
-> Some jobs didn't need to be dumbing down that much, but some had deserved easier execution to deal with endgame content.
SE could make dps hard to get a perfect rotation with again, but how to deal with previous (EW) / current encounter design ? Think about TOP if suddently DPS were having do deal with harder rotation.

6) Dungeon design :

Probably easy to do for SE, boss right now with DT are less sleepy, but could still use some twist, and adds in dungeon should be more than just "grab 2 pack, or 1 pack and 1 big add, pop mit, pop burst"

Alright this last one doesn't shows any issue with SE adressing this and overall balance but I wanted to vent, this is the only point where I'm disapointed and don't see why they don't put some extra thinking in it

Not the worst ideas i listen in the last times. But overall the way they should go is the same they went on PvP Jobs.

They must kill the 120s meta and rebuild every job on a personal scope. Every job must first make fun to play solo, if you hit a normal enemy on the map, in a dungeon or in a raid. Personal limit breaks, combos, switchable skills like healers do damage with heal spells to enemies and heal others. The job mechanics must be the base of there skills, integral need to use them. After they make every job on that level, like they done it in pvp, than they must add skills that go on in raids. Synergy is not even important for that. Because come on, nobody need 10% damage buffs... when you have your personal 10 seconds of son goku kame-hame-ha on the right moment that you time yourself on a raid where it is important. Like the one fight with nebrealis. Where everyone wait for the melee limit.

We most go on form "sweat shop unification project" we have now to "personal identity for everyone". And than we can design the old content on this! Its a challenge for them to do this!

Balance is what got us where we are though. They are so balanced, they have more or less the same tools and features with a different coat of paint.

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Originally Posted by Lucypher_Yorha

1) Healers want to heal A LOT (gcd healing mandatory even with OGCD opti) :
-> Probably one of the most challenging stuff to do for SE, because you can just put brutal heal check : in savage / ult it could work, but in the end it'll stays the same with how encounters works in ffxiv : spam gcd during prog, then clean up and gcd only when needed, no need to worry about mana once timeline is set.

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They have tried that sort of thing. But it can have the reverse effect and make healers avoid PF because they believe they shouldn't have to heal people's mistakes and that they should not make them, even if mistakes are part of the design of the fight.

The bigger issue isn't healers getting used to it, but gear making it trivial so that after some weeks they may not need to care about the heals and mit as deeply due to higher HP pools, defense and heal potency, including of the barrier tanks. So some healers might never actually experience how tough the healing was in the first weeks.

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SE could use random raidbusters / auto crit but it was already that in ARR/HW

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Boss auto attacks will suffice. And they have been doing these more in recent content. The issue was all these "larger than life" casts meant bosses were too busy to actually auto anymore.

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Remowing OGCD healing could force experienced healers to do more gcd healing, but give the feeling of healing like ARR / HW

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Removing that from both tanks and healers would be a start. I don't know how it would work with the scaling at level 100, but the trinity was clearly more intact back then whereas now, even in an Extreme trial a tank can keep the party going for ages after the healers die so it can be finished off (I did this multiple times the last week).

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This is a way to make healers more engaging for experienced healers without hurting the game too much and its design (that is based around damages), only issue would be old content, having a few more damages buttons can be easily fine, but actual caster rotation could lead to synched old content being harder

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Old content wouldn't be harder, but rather easier, if there were more attacks dealing higher damage. And old content does not need to be any easier. It's in a bad spot as it is.

I think the best hope for this is if they do something like skill trees in 8.0 like they've talked about.

Balance is a mirage. Balance is an excuse. Balance is a cost-cutting maneuver.

Balance is a misdirection. Balance is a smokescreen. Balance is a PR stunt.

Balance is the lie that you tell the sacrificial lamb. Balance is the sentiment you express while secretly harboring the desire to destroy. Balance is the thought-ending cliche, an a priori, religious finality.

All this sandpaper and for what? Imbalances are still rampant and exacerbated by a drastic reduction of encounter metrics.

don't give healer a DPS rotation give healer buffs they can give instead like do mechanic again not just a memory game

At the end of the day, if you want interesting job design, you have to accept a little bit of imbalance. Not talking full on like one job is 25% better then another, but some is inevitable.

Maybe I'm the only healer who wants proper DPS rotation lol
I mean, obviously I also want to do more heal in raid, but there's gotta be a limit of how much damage the boss do. And when doing casual content (msq, fate, etc) we will be back to nothing to heal.

That said, I get that not everyone want more dps option. So maybe we can have something like AST card for other healers? Because AST card sytem feels like a minigame to me, especially SB Ast where you have more control of the cards and its effect.

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Originally Posted by Kozh

Maybe I'm the only healer who wants proper DPS rotation lol
I mean, obviously I also want to do more heal in raid, but there's gotta be a limit of how much damage the boss do. And when doing casual content (msq, fate, etc) we will be back to nothing to heal.

That said, I get that not everyone want more dps option. So maybe we can have something like AST card for other healers? Because AST card sytem feels like a minigame to me, especially SB Ast where you have more control of the cards and its effect.

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AST was the buff healer(with time magic to extend them), SCH was the DoT healer, and SGE could have much more to the "damaging healer" idea than Kardia and Pneuma. WHM just getting Aero 3(or a holy equivalent) back would at least be more than it has now. CS3 has already made it abundantly clear that they can't balance for shit even when each role effectively only has two archetypes at most, so I'd rather they just bite the bullet and roll back the homogenization so that the enjoyability of the battle content isn't entirely dependent on savage/ultimate encounter design.

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Originally Posted by Daralii

AST was the buff healer(with time magic to extend them), SCH was the DoT healer, and SGE could have much more to the "damaging healer" idea than Kardia and Pneuma. WHM just getting Aero 3(or a holy equivalent) back would at least be more than it has now. CS3 has already made it abundantly clear that they can't balance for shit even when each role effectively only has two archetypes at most, so I'd rather they just bite the bullet and roll back the homogenization so that the enjoyability of the battle content isn't entirely dependent on savage/ultimate encounter design.

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True. I was really hoping that sage would be a proper DPS healer, but unfortunately right now it's just a worse version of SCH.