RANT: Can we just go back to EW PvP?

This new pvp version of sustained damage isn't fun at all. Especially with the hidden casual CC matchmaking system. Without burst, it's hard to secure kills if your teammates don't know how to focus down a target (except during LB windows). Atleast before the changes, a good player can still potentially carry a bad team by securing kills on key players at key moments. Now, it's nearly impossible unless you're playing certain jobs. My teammates consistently just attack whoever they want and end up dying while I'm trying to focus down crucial enemy players (with LB ready or no guard/purify, out of position, etc).

While I do understand that it's casual CC, losing 20 games in a row because of bad teammates should NOT be a thing. I'm talking about games where I'm consistently top dmg or top kills while also taking the most dmg on my team. I'm talking about games where my teammates are consistently dying by just showing up. I understand that a lot of pvpers quit (or took a break) because of the changes so there's a smaller pool of players to draw from but losing 20 games in a row should not be a thing. The only games that I win are the ones where I pick a carry and play 100% like if it's a ranked game. It's friggin casual CC but I can't even win games if I just play casually or play a support. Ya'll need to fix casual matchmaking or go back to EW style PvP because this current stuff ain't it.

Also, the hit detection "fix" needs to be "unfixed" to actually fix whatever this current hit detection nonsense is. The animations need to be faster and not locked behind GCDs. Sometimes I need to spam my LB button for it to actually activate, why is that a thing?

TY for coming to my TED Talk.

I never liked the one hit KO burst meta of the old days so I'll respectfully disagree, and burst is still very much a thing at high level, except you don't necessarily just get deleted after a stun without being able to do anything. I also do not like the idea of job carries: I do understand that no matter what a lot of jobs still do hard carry, but I'm not fond of making this even more dominant because it just generates toxic metas of carry jobs for solo queue (which are still a thing with melees let's be honest).
At low level or casual people are not good enough to execute perfect retreats so they just die like flies anyway. At high level, you'll get chased down and killed without support (notably full red teams), and with overwhelming supports (like regen healers or PLD) they'll deny kills, so perhaps that's where the true problem lies.

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Originally Posted by Valence

At low level or casual people are not good enough to execute perfect retreats so they just die like flies anyway.

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That's precisely my point though - in regards to casual games. People are still dying like flies but previously I could carry them potentially by playing a carry or even a support/tank really well - but now it's nearly impossible.

They need to make their (hidden) matchmaking actually random. Because it currently isn't random at all. I don't know what it's based off of but it feels like overall party MMR. So if you have a high (hidden) MMR, expect lower level teammates. The problem is, I consistently get lower level teammates while the opposing team gets 4-5 decent but not high level players. With the current meta it is impossible for 1 person to disrupt/shutdown 5 average enemy players by himself (because the player's 4 teammates are contributing nothing and they keep dying on the crystal solo for no tactical purpose - which has always been a thing). Yes it's "casual" so I shouldn't care but I've lost 20 games in a row (I wasn't playing a melee carry) because matchmaking decides to give me the same teammates 3 games in a row. I take a break, get a new set of teammates who have no clue what they're doing while the enemy are still average. That's my meta right now. Almost, every, single, casual, game. It's not fun at all to have to play a carry every single game if I don't want to lose. And even IF I play a carry, I can still lose because the enemy support are average and know how to support/heal. Whereas my supports are new and don't know how to heal. That is the skill discrepancy that I consistently play with. In the off chance that I see a crystal+ player that I recognize, I get excited - even if he's on the opposing team. Because that means I might actually have decent teammates hence a decent game.

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Originally Posted by Nubrication

That's precisely my point though - in regards to casual games. People are still dying like flies but previously I could carry them potentially by playing a carry or even a support/tank really well - but now it's nearly impossible.

They need to make their (hidden) matchmaking actually random. Because it currently isn't random at all. I don't know what it's based off of but it feels like overall party MMR. So if you have a high (hidden) MMR, expect lower level teammates. The problem is, I consistently get lower level teammates while the opposing team gets 4-5 decent but not high level players. With the current meta it is impossible for 1 person to disrupt/shutdown 5 average enemy players by himself (because the player's 4 teammates are contributing nothing and they keep dying on the crystal solo for no tactical purpose - which has always been a thing). Yes it's "casual" so I shouldn't care but I've lost 20 games in a row (I wasn't playing a melee carry) because matchmaking decides to give me the same teammates 3 games in a row. I take a break, get a new set of teammates who have no clue what they're doing while the enemy are still average. That's my meta right now. Almost, every, single, casual, game. It's not fun at all to have to play a carry every single game if I don't want to lose. And even IF I play a carry, I can still lose because the enemy support are average and know how to support/heal. Whereas my supports are new and don't know how to heal. That is the skill discrepancy that I consistently play with. In the off chance that I see a crystal+ player that I recognize, I get excited - even if he's on the opposing team. Because that means I might actually have decent teammates hence a decent game.

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If the MMR grabs people over a wide range of ratings and shoves them in a 5-party so the average comes out right, that is a recipe for disaster.

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Originally Posted by Nubrication

Hidden causal rating system

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lol first time?

Yes if you've played a lot of casual games and you're good you're going to get saddled with all the battle bred 1's and people who don't know how to use recover or sprint and all this, it's been that way since forever. Yes, the only way to get ahead in this system is if another high lvl player queues up. Casual CC games are actually harder to win than "muh high level pvp" that gurl likes to drone on incessantly about. It's just easier to get a match so people that actually like PVP play it.

It should be changed to random teams I agree. It's casual, it doesn't matter, there shouldn't be a ranking system full stop.
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Originally Posted by Mawlzy

If the MMR grabs people over a wide range of ratings and shoves them in a 5-party so the average comes out right, that is a recipe for disaster.

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Exactly! That's how it feels like in casuals.

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Originally Posted by DallsBeep

lol first time?

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Alpha Wolf, all feast job class titles, crystal tier since season 1, ex-plat/t100 hoverer feast player, played the fold, all FL titles. I know you're trying to be funny but don't start this lol.

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Yes if you've played a lot of casual games and you're good you're going to get saddled with all the battle bred 1's and people who don't know how to use recover or sprint and all this, it's been that way since forever. Yes, the only way to get ahead in this system is if another high lvl player queues up. Casual CC games are actually harder to win than "muh high level pvp" that gurl likes to drone on incessantly about. It's just easier to get a match so people that actually like PVP play it.

It should be changed to random teams I agree. It's casual, it doesn't matter, there shouldn't be a ranking system full stop.
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Yes, I know it's been this way since forever but the whole point of my original post is saying that NOW I CAN'T CARRY MY TEAMMATES BECAUSE OF SUSTAINED DAMAGE INSTEAD OF BURST DAMAGE. Whereas prior to the sustained damage route, it was still possible, even with the garbage matchmaking.

And yes I agree 100% casual matchmaking SHOULD be 100% random. I'm already getting stomped some games, so it's not gonna make a difference anyways.

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Originally Posted by Nubrication

Alpha Wolf, all feast job class titles, crystal tier since season 1, ex-plat/t100 hoverer feast player, played the fold, all FL titles. I know you're trying to be funny but don't start this lol.



Yes, I know it's been this way since forever but the whole point of my original post is saying that NOW I CAN'T CARRY MY TEAMMATES BECAUSE OF SUSTAINED DAMAGE INSTEAD OF BURST DAMAGE. Whereas prior to the sustained damage route, it was still possible, even with the garbage matchmaking.

And yes I agree 100% casual matchmaking SHOULD be 100% random. I'm already getting stomped some games, so it's not gonna make a difference anyways.

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It's a meme bro lol

You can try switching DC's. Sometimes to me it feels like the under the hood rating system follows you around, sometimes it doesn't. It's better than just getting no help every match regardless, most times.

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Originally Posted by Nubrication

That's precisely my point though - in regards to casual games. People are still dying like flies but previously I could carry them potentially by playing a carry or even a support/tank really well - but now it's nearly impossible.

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Ah, I see what you mean. I somehow had in mind you thought about carrying with melee DPS and whatnot. I could see this being a thing with healers although I still think you can save a lot of lives in casuals just by overwhelming the low sustained damaged of those games by sheer healing throughput and lean the scales toward your team that way. If anything the meta having shifted more onto sustain, healers also got indirectly buffed by this in the process when they were already very good before. I feel that casual hasn't changed that much at least from my perspective because people have never been able to burst below Diamond anyway, so they never even played into the old meta to begin with.

I do think that tanks also still carry tremendously there because burst or no burst, casual games just aren't able to output enough firepower to get through them and they just dent themselves over and over decent tanks that take advantage of this. There is a reason GNB, before and especially now, is such a bane in casual games because it's incredibly easy to play there (just ungabunga into the enemy team).

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Originally Posted by Nubrication

They need to make their (hidden) matchmaking actually random. Because it currently isn't random at all. I don't know what it's based off of but it feels like overall party MMR. So if you have a high (hidden) MMR, expect lower level teammates. The problem is, I consistently get lower level teammates while the opposing team gets 4-5 decent but not high level players. With the current meta it is impossible for 1 person to disrupt/shutdown 5 average enemy players by himself (because the player's 4 teammates are contributing nothing and they keep dying on the crystal solo for no tactical purpose - which has always been a thing). Yes it's "casual" so I shouldn't care but I've lost 20 games in a row (I wasn't playing a melee carry) because matchmaking decides to give me the same teammates 3 games in a row. I take a break, get a new set of teammates who have no clue what they're doing while the enemy are still average. That's my meta right now. Almost, every, single, casual, game. It's not fun at all to have to play a carry every single game if I don't want to lose. And even IF I play a carry, I can still lose because the enemy support are average and know how to support/heal. Whereas my supports are new and don't know how to heal. That is the skill discrepancy that I consistently play with. In the off chance that I see a crystal+ player that I recognize, I get excited - even if he's on the opposing team. Because that means I might actually have decent teammates hence a decent game.

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There is definitely a hidden MMR behind. I'm not sure if it's a true MMR or if the system just checks Ranked results and league, but I do think it does the latter because while I almost never get paired with other ranked players unless there is more than two of us in the game, I tend to get paired a lot more consistently with older ranked players that aren't ranked at the moment. Of course that's feelycraft more than actual data on my end but I've seen it echoed across other ranked players.

Either way I remember seeing a thread on those forums describing exactly what you describe. I've tried to track and checked my winrate in casual even on my main jobs, and it consistently seems to hover over 50% or lower unless I start playing carry jobs (especially the ones that trounce at lower level like DRG). I feel that especially at low level where there is no burst and damage is weak and scattered, you'll turn tables more by being able to tank and soak (with any job really, not just tanks), than just by getting kills. It was definitely easier to carry by killing back then.