Please adjust the CD on Manafication

As a main of RDM since Stormblood, we've gone through few iterations of RDM, and, while some of them have been more fun then others, I want to make it clear that this iteration is one of the best.

However, there is a major issue with this iteration of RDM that makes optimization at the high end a nuisance, making skilled expression a painful experience. With Prefulgence being one of our highest potency buttons tied to Manafication, it doubles down on the mindset of rushing your Manafication in fights, unless you know that lining it up with Embolden isn't going to lose a use of it through the fight.

In Endwalker, there were fights, especially in PF with non consistent clears times, where Manafication rush was preferred, but it wasn't as punishing then with managing the rotation later into the fights, compared to the current experience.

The reason for this is Prefulgence, you will get to a point in the fight where rushing Manafication will make Prefulgence miss Embolden and buff windows. Now, of course, just use it outside the buff, it still is 900 potency you don't want to miss out on. However with how the rest of the kit has been set up for the expansion, this seems like a weird oversight by the devs.

I would recommend changing the CD of Manafication from a 110 second CD, to 115 seconds. This small change would fix the terrible experience of rushing Manafication, causing Prefulgence to miss Embolden windows later into the fight. The change would also make the rotation feel a lot better to perform, as you will end up with awkward melee combo timings.

This change would also make the lining up of buffs playstyle not change from how it's currently done. For those that do not know, usually we use Manafication 5~ seconds before Embolden, to make sure that our ranged finishers get benefit of both buffs.

The only issue with the suggested change is that Manafication now becomes one of the few, if not only buffs that would have a odd number CD, but imo that is a small sacrifice to make.

Wouldn't increasing the cooldown to 115s still cause it to drift? All it does is make it happen more slowly, and eventually you'll reach the same point. Simply changing the cooldown to a nice round 120s would fix it once and for all.

This is an objective nerf to the job in scenarios where the cumulative 5s difference causes a lost manafication over the length of the fight.

What's stopping you from pretending it does have a 115s cooldown, and just waiting longer to use it? 5 seconds is two gcds, or one dualcast pair, easy enough to time for a red mage. A shorter cooldown always gives you the agency to manually delay it, accomplishing the same thing. You could do that right now, while this change would reduce everyone else's options.

Personally, I don't hate the desynced cooldowns. I think it's great for a job to have many moving parts that distinguish excellent players from merely average ones. Red mage has to deal with managing large scale cooldowns against fight timelines, as well as moment-to-moment ogcd alignment concerns. It has a pleasing spread of both macro and micro oriented optimizations.

The job has come a long way from its inception in Stormblood as the 'easymode' caster, helped in part by the existence of the summoner rework, and accessible new jobs like pictomancer. I see people slowly coming around to appreciating the nuance and skill expression that it has. I think we should be happy with what we've got, lest their idle hands decide to turn the job into another summoner.

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Originally Posted by Krishunter

As a main of RDM since Stormblood, we've gone through few iterations of RDM, and, while some of them have been more fun then others, I want to make it clear that this iteration is one of the best.

However, there is a major issue with this iteration of RDM that makes optimization at the high end a nuisance, making skilled expression a painful experience. With Prefulgence being one of our highest potency buttons tied to Manafication, it doubles down on the mindset of rushing your Manafication in fights, unless you know that lining it up with Embolden isn't going to lose a use of it through the fight.

In Endwalker, there were fights, especially in PF with non consistent clears times, where Manafication rush was preferred, but it wasn't as punishing then with managing the rotation later into the fights, compared to the current experience.

The reason for this is Prefulgence, you will get to a point in the fight where rushing Manafication will make Prefulgence miss Embolden and buff windows. Now, of course, just use it outside the buff, it still is 900 potency you don't want to miss out on. However with how the rest of the kit has been set up for the expansion, this seems like a weird oversight by the devs.

I would recommend changing the CD of Manafication from a 110 second CD, to 115 seconds. This small change would fix the terrible experience of rushing Manafication, causing Prefulgence to miss Embolden windows later into the fight. The change would also make the rotation feel a lot better to perform, as you will end up with awkward melee combo timings.

This change would also make the lining up of buffs playstyle not change from how it's currently done. For those that do not know, usually we use Manafication 5~ seconds before Embolden, to make sure that our ranged finishers get benefit of both buffs.

The only issue with the suggested change is that Manafication now becomes one of the few, if not only buffs that would have a odd number CD, but imo that is a small sacrifice to make.

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okay so hear me out here.
Fights usually last 10 minutes unless they're ultimate.
CD is 110s.
If you use it on CD, that gives you one bonus manafication in 12 minutes. Which ultimately (heh) means that in most fights, does not gain you an extra use.
Manafication also buffs your next 6 gcds, so you'll be wanting to put that on the buff windows anyway.

Rushing Manafication comes into play if you're trying to parse hard because your cleartime is like 7:30 or something and not using it an extra time in that window would be a downside for that specific purpose, but the only thing increasing manafication cd would do here is reduce options really.

Shockingly, the job doesn't play itself and you, yourself, have to... time the button press.
Don't fix what isn't broken. Optimization is fun when it *is* a nuisance and a painful experience. Play Summoner if you don't want to put the effort in.

The buff time for Prefulgence is 30s, and that doesn't start ticking until you spend your last Manafic stack. Which just got buffed to 30s duration. That means you have nearly a full minute until the buff falls off and you lose the cast. Considering it's an oGCD, you can easily work it in between any number of casts between when the Manafic timer starts ticking and the Prefulgence buff falls off. Obviously you aren't normally going to nor should you want to drag out Manafic's buff timer to its almost full length, but even if you rush it, that's still a good 10~ seconds spent burning all 6 stacks before the Prefulgence buff pops. That's more than enough time to hold it for your next Embolden window for the majority of fights; and any fight that would go long enough for that to start to become a concern is almost certainly a fight that you'd already have a planned/expected killtime for, and therefore be able to know if/when to hold your Manafic.

Although the cooldown on Manafic is annoying at times it gives the job just the right amount of breathing room in its kit to be able to adjust on the fly, you can rush or hold it depending on whether or not you'll know you need mobility, will have to disengage from melee range, or if you're going to cap your mana. It adds a good bit of nuance when a lot of jobs have had their rotations tightened up or made even stricter with timing.

Disagree. Rushing Manafication is extremely rewarding when you can see it gain you a use in fights. It is a more challenging rotation, but you also don't have to do it. If it's too difficult or it feels bad to rush it, you can just delay Manafication now.

Think of what you're asking for. You're asking for an entire playstyle to be removed from the job so that YOU don't feel bad for doing it, when you can freely choose to not do it right now, for free. Using Prefulgence outside of buffs "feeling bad" is a personal issue with your mindset. I feel outstanding when I'm using Prefulgence outside of buffs because I know it means I'm gaining a use later. And being able to delay Prefulgence from a Manafication into Embolden earlier in a fight feels incredible and is engaging.

I really do recommend you reframe your mindset here. You aren't losing out on damage by rushing Manafication when appropriate. You're gaining. And if you're really that worried about it, I've seen really skilled RDM not rush Manafication in fights where it would gain them a use, and still perform exceptionally because the rest of their play is so good, so if you just don't wanna rush Manafication, you don't have to, and you can still perform exceptionally!

Honestly, I like the shorter CD on manafication. If your goal is to get an extra use, keeping it on cooldown is the way to go. Even if you decide not to go that route, it makes the job able to adjust on the fly if you need additional movement. That can be avoided with better planning. It at least gives you an additional option in the red mage game play.

Also, not sure if anyone has thought about this, would you like to extend the timer on the acceleration buff to 30 seconds so it matches grand impact? With the ability to do multiple melee combos and keeping acceleration from capping, sometimes I find myself dropping the acceleration buff. I could start a new thread for this.

I think a better change would be to make the magnification stacks ONLY effect melee combo and finishers. That way you can use magnification early, go back into regular jolt combo, then use the magnification stacks under Embolden/buffs, similar to how you can the free melee combo if you want.

Also for the love of physical damage, let Embolden effect our oGCDs!

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Originally Posted by kajv95

If you use it on CD, that gives you one bonus manafication in 12 minutes.

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I think you mean once every 24 minutes.