Misleading or incorrect text for Modest Lure & Ambitious Lure

Hello! The new FSH skills "Modest Lure" and "Ambitious Lure" are extremely useful, but also fairly complex. I've observed many players being confused by some specific English text related to these abilities, and I think a few simple fixes would go a long way!

There are two main areas of confusion:

1. "Next cast": The message "You have a feeling your next cast will land a <small/large>-sized fish!" actually affects your current cast, not the next cast.
2. "Large-sized fish:" Ambitious Lure uses this in a few places to mean "fish with a strong or ferocious bite", not what other skills refer to as large-sized fish.

"Next cast"

Problem: This issue is fairly straightforward. Modest Lure and Ambitious Lure are special in that they're used after the Cast action but before one of the Hook actions. When used, they have a chance to trigger the message described above; if triggered, this effect guarantees that the active cast, during which you just used the Lure, will result in a fish with the relevant bite strength. The current message suggests that your next actual Cast action will be changed and implies that the current/active cast is unaffected.

Suggested solutions: Reword the message to make it clear that it has affected your current cast:

"You have a feeling your next bite will land a [...]"
"You have a feeling that you've attracted a [...] fish!"
"A [...] fish has noticed your efforts!"
"You see a [...] fish approach your hook!"
(where [...] refers to the type of fish being Lured)

continued in a reply

"Large-sized fish"

Problem: This one is a bit more involved. When HQ fish were removed from the game, all references to "high quality fish" were replaced with "large-sized fish". This can be seen on skills like Mooch, Patience, Prize Catch, Big-game Fishing, Nature's Bounty, etc. Unfortunately, Ambitious Lure uses the same language to refer to a different class of fish altogether: fish with a strong (!!) or ferocious (!!!) bite. While there's often a correlation between stronger bites and larger fish, "large-sized fish" already means a specific thing in FFXIV's fishing, which can make this very misleading. This extends to "small-sized fish" for Modest Lure, because it suggests (for example) that the fish it attracts could not be used with Mooch.

Specific instances of this language include the tooltips for Modest Lure and Powerful Lure, the fly/toast messages that appear when using Modest Lure and Powerful Lure, and the "guarantee" messages that occasionally appear when using Modest Lure and Powerful Lure.

Suggested solutions: Replace these skills' usage of "large-sized fish" and "small-sized fish" with language that refers specifically to the fish's bite strength. For example:

weak/strong fish
fish with a weak/strong bite
placid/aggressive fish

I think "with a weak/strong bite" is the least ambiguous option, despite being wordier, and it mirrors the tooltips of Precision Hookset and Powerful Hookset. Some specific suggestions with this text:

[Ambitious Lure tooltip]
Attracts large-sized fish and increases your chances of landing one. Occasionally guarantees you will land a large-sized fish.
Can be used up to 3 times[...]
May also attract rare species of fish. Can also be used with fish caught using Powerful Hookset.
-> Attracts fish with strong bites, including fish caught using Powerful Hookset, and increases your chances of landing one. Occasionally guarantees you will land a fish with a strong bite.
May also attract rare species of fish.
Can be used up to 3 times[...]

[Ambitious Lure usage message]
You attempt to lure large-sized fish to your hook.
-> You attempt to lure fish with strong bites to your hook.

[Modest Lure usage message]
You attempt to lure small-sized fish to your hook.
-> You attempt to lure fish with weak bites to your hook.

[Ambitious Lure guarantee message]
You have a feeling your next cast will land a large-sized fish!
-> You have a feeling that you've attracted a fish with a strong bite!

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Thanks for your time!

- Lilac Merthelin
<<The Final Fish>>
<<World-class Troller>>

I support a wording change. It's already difficult for player-based resources to clearly explain some of the complicated parts of fishing; this use of "large-sized" to mean both fish that respond favorably to Powerful Hookset, and fish of any hookset that are on the high end of the size range for their kind, is causing a lot more confusion in explaining the complex workings of the new Lures.

I agree with the above suggestion. The !, !!, and !!! casts are referred to as "bites" in other places, and changing the text to refer to them on Ambitious and Modest Lure to be the same seems like a good idea.

Yeah these actions are an issue if you look for fish that need precision hookset but have !!! bites, it's misleading.

I've just gone back and caught all ARR fish, so have been knee deep in this (often literally).

The main issue is that the Hookset actions and the ! vs !! system are fundamentally different, in practice, to the !!! system of 'big' fish. We have ! fish with 'weak bites' and !! 'strong bites' that can both !!! 'extreme bite'.

They need a set of words for fish SIZE big/small and ilm length.
The need a set of words for ! vs !! to go with all the green vs. red actions for precision/modest and powerful/ambitious.
The need a new word for 'notorious' or 'rare' fish, which is currently 'big' fish, but not all of them are '!!-big' so confusion.

Basically, SIZE should only ever be mentioned in relation to collectibility rating and your fishing catch Records.
When distinguishing between the current ! and !! (green v red) fish, use something related to bite strength.

I like the idea of separating green and red fish as behaviors: docile v aggressive. Both of which can be ANY length throughout the game. I would then replace the !!! system with a jagged-edge cartoon bubble yellow and red style thing behind either the ! or !! respectively when catching a RARE docile or RARE aggressive fish. Three distinct mechanics with three unrelated indicators.

edit: def keep the deep 'ka-thunk' noise for rare fish. Love it.

I also feel like "hookset" is a misleading term.

It's not in the dictionary so perhaps the translators have invented it, but to me (no real fishing experience) I would assume it's the type of hook you're tying to your line – but it's a skill you use to catch the fish after you've already cast the line, so it can't be that.

I think it would be better renamed Precision Hook / Powerful Hook to make it clear that it's an alternate version of the Hook skill.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Iscah

I also feel like "hookset" is a misleading term.

It's not in the dictionary so perhaps the translators have invented it, but to me (no real fishing experience) I would assume it's the type of hook you're tying to your line – but it's a skill you use to catch the fish after you've already cast the line, so it can't be that.

I think it would be better renamed Precision Hook / Powerful Hook to make it clear that it's an alternate version of the Hook skill.

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if you take Wikipedia into account....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hook_set

it is terminology used via anglers with how they catch a fish and set the hook

Quote:

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In recreational fishing terminology, the hookset or setting the hook is when an angler makes a sudden lifting motion to a fishing rod in order to pull the line and anchor the fish hook firmly into the mouth of a fish once it has gulped in the hook along with the bait/lure.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hedron

I've just gone back and caught all ARR fish, so have been knee deep in this (often literally).

The main issue is that the Hookset actions and the ! vs !! system are fundamentally different, in practice, to the !!! system of 'big' fish. We have ! fish with 'weak bites' and !! 'strong bites' that can both !!! 'extreme bite'.

They need a set of words for fish SIZE big/small and ilm length.
The need a set of words for ! vs !! to go with all the green vs. red actions for precision/modest and powerful/ambitious.
The need a new word for 'notorious' or 'rare' fish, which is currently 'big' fish, but not all of them are '!!-big' so confusion.

Basically, SIZE should only ever be mentioned in relation to collectibility rating and your fishing catch Records.
When distinguishing between the current ! and !! (green v red) fish, use something related to bite strength.

I like the idea of separating green and red fish as behaviors: docile v aggressive. Both of which can be ANY length throughout the game. I would then replace the !!! system with a jagged-edge cartoon bubble yellow and red style thing behind either the ! or !! respectively when catching a RARE docile or RARE aggressive fish. Three distinct mechanics with three unrelated indicators.

edit: def keep the deep 'ka-thunk' noise for rare fish. Love it.

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The thing though is that !!! bite do follow the size rule set forth by ! and !! bites for Precision and Powerful Hooksets. They also already use bite strength to distinguish between all the different bite types, which you see in Ocean Fishing.

! are weak bites
!! are strong bites
!!! are ferocious bites.

Adding "Docile" and "aggressive" or any additional terminology is adding more to something that shouldn't already be getting more terms, nor does it need replacing. People are already confused by it all not because of the names but because of how it's taught in game. And, even more impactfully, players perpetuating myths/incorrect assumptions about fishing that drown out or muddy the more modern, accurate guides.

Edit: It should be noted that the ALure and MLure descriptions were updated to be clearer on what they do, the thing that's still left to fix is the next-cast change to just "next bite."