Make it so the Current Expac MSQ doesn't level you

I have a feeling that a part of the frustration, other than this MSQ being incredibly cutscene dense, would be resolved if they made it so the MSQ wasn't literally the only viable way to level to 100.

What I mean by this, is that currently there's no point in doing any side content on Expac release. You do the entire MSQ because just the MSQ alone is enough to get you to max level, all major content is gated by the MSQ and the MSQ is very long. Why would you do any other side quests, fates etc?

I think for the game to be more enjoyable and break up the cutscene heavy MSQ, they need to reduce the EXP gained from the current Expacs MSQ. I'm not suggesting make it give you 0 exp just make it so the player needs to find other sources of exp to continue the MSQ. (I also think they need to make the MSQ slightly smaller in scope but that's another issue.) This will then allows the player to do other things in the world to get levels, dungeons runs, fates, side quests. Other content becomes relative and the game isn't relying so heavily on having a brilliant storyline 24/7. You can write a mediocre story and people will care less when it's not constantly in their faces for 30hr straight.

Older Expac MSQ can stay the same to streamline the catching up to the current game.

Updating for clarity: I'm suggesting the MSQ should be smaller, it should still give some xp just not enough to get you to max, less cutscenes, massive lore related info dumbs that aren't pertinent to the plot should be side content that's optional etc, get rid of alot of pointless cutscenes that repeat the same thing said 20m ago almost as if they knew they'd bored the player to sleep and had to remind them. Make the MSQ short sweat drive the plot but have the bulk of playtime be actually gameplay, be that creating a better fate/quest/dungeon/leve system using other games like GW2, ESO as inspiration. That's the way the game needs to move in the future to avoid having this situation again. Dawntrail MSQ being boring for alot of people, is a symptom not the disease.

While doing MSQ, I did:
-Roulettes and leveled SCH (thus SMN) to 100.
-Sidequests+FATEs+DT hunt bills to unlock rank 6 (leveling WAR to 100).
-Did MSQ with Viper.
-Quickly getting through MCH by roulettes/hunt bills/EW beast tribe/WT.

(For the role quests)

I can also say I see plenty of people doing FATEs and they have gemstone rewards so there is plenty of reason to do them now. You can stop MSQ to do them any time as well.

No, just no.

The issue is 100% the writing and pacing. Nothing to do with getting exp

Exp is just a hurdle to keep us subbed for longer.

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Originally Posted by GrizzlyTank

No, just no.

The issue is 100% the writing and pacing. Nothing to do with getting exp

Exp is just a hurdle to keep us subbed for longer.

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But one of the largest complaints other than poor writing, is the lack of gameplay, the MSQ is ALWAYS going to be alot of cutscenes due to the nature of what it is. The gameplay is the side content/overworld content/dungeons. Although ARR MSQ was meh and the jobs weren't great, it had the best overworld. Dungeons were the best back then with their own self contained story, the world felt like a world. The MSQ having such a forceful emphasis on the game is going to constantly create these hit and miss expacs, if they don't introduce additional content so that players can enjoy gameplay while leveling they will really struggle to keep/gain new players.

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Originally Posted by Jeeqbit

While doing MSQ, I did:
-Roulettes and leveled SCH (thus SMN) to 100.
-Sidequests+FATEs+DT hunt bills to unlock rank 6 (leveling WAR to 100).
-Did MSQ with Viper.
-Quickly getting through MCH by roulettes/hunt bills/EW beast tribe/WT.

(For the role quests)

I can also say I see plenty of people doing FATEs and they have gemstone rewards so there is plenty of reason to do them now. You can stop MSQ to do them any time as well.

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You're missing my point, all meaningful content is behind the MSQ, which means you have to complete it/progress rather far in it to do any content, The MSQ also give you 1 free level 100 character, that's the mistake I'm talking about. Sure you can stop at anytime and do a fate but the players not rewarded for this meaningfully because at all time it's in your best interest to be doing the MSQ, dungeons also locked behind progressing the MSQ.

My whole point is they need to separate the MSQ from the rest of the gameplay to a degree. Fates and side quest will always been there so players will look at them later, gems are functionally pointless, they are mount and minion grinds that people do once they're max level.

Currently the game is designed to railroad the player through the MSQ, then they can go out and do other things. This creates the problem where if the story doesn't resonate with you the game becomes basically a complete and utter chore for 30hrs. Smaller MSQ with more overworld focus would massively alleviate this.

I remember that ARR on release was quite like this.
The MSQ did level you, but the exp wasn't nearly enough to follow it all the way to 50- you'd be taking breaks and doing dungeon grinds with randoms on your sever and leves and fates between everything
It's still a little bit like that when you get to 46 msq on a non road-to-80 server

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Originally Posted by cutestfox

I remember that ARR on release was quite like this.
The MSQ did level you, but the exp wasn't nearly enough to follow it all the way to 50- you'd be taking breaks and doing dungeon grinds with randoms on your sever and leves and fates between everything
It's still a little bit like that when you get to 46 msq on a non road-to-80 server

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Yes, and it is what built the game. You went out and did things, kinda like an adventurer would, you felt less dragged from place to place by cutscenes and more taken to an area and then left to fend for yourself.

The sidequests and FATEs are hardly any more interesting.

We just need more creative and bold solo instances or other types of content scattered throughout the MSQ like In From the Cold. Far, far, far more. Like 20 times more.

Would never happen though because this game's resources are being funneled towards dead-end projects like Forspoken.

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Originally Posted by Malthir

Yes, and it is what built the game. You went out and did things, kinda like an adventurer would, you felt less dragged from place to place by cutscenes and more taken to an area and then left to fend for yourself.

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I can agree and disagree. The latest expacs, Dawntrail more than all previous, have felt like watching a movie where, sometimes I have to hold W to walk my ass to the next part before the movie resumes. But I'm not sure looking to the old and dreaming of 'Halcyon Days' is the answer.

Personally I would go far more insane if I had to rely on fates and 30+minute dungeon queues just to progress Yawntrails MSQ, considering I chose to go through it as Viper and thus lacked the privilege of healer and tank queues.

I think the better path is to make the MSQ itself more engaging, to give us more battle instances or more things to kill. The current expac has you feeling more like a piece of decor than an adventurer

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Originally Posted by AnotherHighlander

The sidequests and FATEs are hardly any more interesting.

We just need more creative and bold solo instances or other types of content scattered throughout the MSQ like In From the Cold. Far, far, far more. Like 20 times more.

Would never happen though because this game's resources are being funneled towards dead-end projects like Forspoken.

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Yes I'm not suggesting Fate's as they stand are perfect but the side content and fate's currently are not bad. It would also allow for them to offload alot of the lore building they are trying to cram into the MSQ, which would reduce the heavy amount of cutscenes. Alot of players love deep cultural lore, alot don't having it in the side content is much better, than having long cutscenes the players forced through. Ultimately the aim of the MSQ should be short cutscene's that very precisely drive the plot in a direction then switch over to gameplay. For example. Helping the Vanu area, we should have a cutscene of us going there, then have us have to be a certain level, to get the next quest in the area, this means do side missions for the feather little bastards, you then learn about their culture, the player feels like they are playing the game and less like they are being dragged about by static cutscenes, your character doesn't talk or ever really take action in these cutscenes so 30 hours of you standing and nodding while other characters talk is not great, for a game.

I would like to see them evolve Fates, try for something more akin to what GW2/ESO do, you have the MSQ take you to an area, then lots of smaller points through the area that have their own little story beats you play through doing quests etc, then back to the MSQ, to the next zone. Same with dungeons, in ARR they had their own little story beats, most dungeons were not tied to the MSQ. Then hard modes where you came back did them again at max level and their story and dungeon had changed due to the impact of what you did when you first did the dungeon. That's engaging the player in the world.

I'll be honest, if I couldn't have played through Dawntrail's mainquest without worrying about levelling, and had gotten levelgated sometime in between this slog of a narrative, I would have just put down the game and not picked it up anymore. This is 100% on the writing, and I just wanted it to be over. And I've read that sentiment with others, too.

I also played some of the old ARR back in the day, and while I didn't stick around back then, I wasn't bothered by the sidequesting then because I enjoyed the early worldbuilding, the charm and personality in the side quests and activities, the care put into everything. It was also the start of the MMO, and I didn't feel any rush; I played it like a sandbox game.
But it's not that game anymore, and I don't think those times can be brought back short of just torching everything again and going "A Realm Re-Reborn" - and all that provided the writing gets at least back up to the level of ARR.

And I'm a story enjoyer. I've always watched the cutscenes, I went around to talk to characters between quest stages to hear what they had to say, etc. I don't even have a problem with "Go here, talk to X, watch a cutscene" for the main quest while it's good writing, and it's been that for a long time. I'll also sit through visual novels with no problem. As with others, Dawntrail singlehandedly turned me into a cutscene skipper and made me fast-push the button in dialogue if it was the same thing over and over again. "Wuk Lamat talks about peace again? The sentimental music? There won't be anything of value in this; skip."