[FEEDBACK] Sol Bahamut and 7.0 SMN

I just wanted to leave some feedback to the devs regarding summoner since I've gotten through to 100 and I feel I've played it pretty thoroughly to get a good handle on the changes.

Overall, the job still feels fun and exciting. I do get a bit bored sometimes when I just get in that rhythm / zone of going through my rotation; however, Sol Bahamut does shake things up for now since it's new, and I look forward to pulling the weird looking lizard and his bookmarks out to spit some lightballs at my enemies.

I'm one of those players that loved the changes to SMN, and I actually changed my main DPS to SMN class from BRD.

However, I do have a few complaints:
1. The summon should've been Alexander or Odin: The whole theme of FF9 really made me ache for Sol Bahamut to be Alexander or Odin instead. FF9 is my favorite Final Fantasy, and constantly seeing Alexandria and how much the story referenced that city just made me groan in disappointment we didn't get our Alexander summon. It would've fit the theme of this expac so well. Odin also played such a massive role in FF9 and would've worked as well. Such a major missed opportunity, despite me liking Sol Bahamut.

2. We need a different phase for our filler rotation: Ifrit / Garuda / Titan are such classic FF summons, and I finally feel like a real summoner in XIV. However, I've defended smn simplicity b/c I was certain they would give us a more complex rotation during DT. I'm very disappointed that we still have only those 3 as our main filler rotation. I really want a second filler rotation being Shiva / Ramuh / Leviathan. Those are just as classic as the first 3 and the SMN job doesn't feel like a complete FF summoner without them.

3. Needs Higher Damage: I know we're the easiest caster to play, and probably the best entry lvl DPS job in the game. It's one of the reasons why I enjoy this job so much. I use this job to learn fights and go into content as my first time so I can actually see the fight without just staring at my buttons. However, I do wish the damage was a bit better since it's a caster, but that's just my opinion.

4. Keep the Res button: I don't think our battle res should be taken from us. I've saved so many parties from wipes with my battle res. It's sorely missed when I get into a party without one and I do think it would mess with the identity of this job if it was taken away.

Those are really my only gripes with the job so far. I hope they take the feedback and really blow us out of the water with additions (please not subtractions) to the SMN job in the future!

Madeen would have been a great summon with Terra Homing, especially as the better version of King Moogle Mog.

Solar Bahamut makes no sense. SE forgot that Bahamut isn't a type of dragon, but was the name of the Mighty King of Meracydia. He was a person and a monarch, who happened to be a dragon, and Bahamut was his name. "Lunar Bahamut" in the Shadowbringers MSQ is a name of convenience given to the creature created by Fandaniel with resemblance to Bahamut, so we can have something to call it, but the concept of "Solar Bahamut" is itself lore-breaking.

I don't mind Neo Bahamut or Bahamut Type-Zero if they are Magitek monstrosities created in the image of the original Bahamut, but the writers are playing a bit too fast and loose with the rules here for my liking.

tbh i was hoping we get animation upgrade for our trio summon in DT, just like every other class ability getting cosmetic upgrade, i was hoping ifrit titan and garuda got upgrade to... i dont know, leviathan ramuh and alexander maybe?

even its just animation change and potency upgrade, i'll be happy with it

As much as i want to have more summons, i think they would have added exactly the same as Solar Bahamut did: Nothing.

Unless the base rotation of each summon or demi is adjusted, the issues faced by summoner will not change. Does this mean we need a new rework, no.What the job needs is diversification of each Demi / Arcanum rotation, and cast times.

The other issue is to remove the rigidity and for this i think the order needs revising, which would end up being a partial rework. Personally it should be Arcanum grants demi not the reverse but i supose the issue is that the reverse would make openers non standard for summoners as burst would come after most openers are complete.

The job needs a mechanic to build towards and reward good play. It doesnt need to be the hardest job, but it does need to be a bit harder than it is currently, adding cast times would be a good step.

on carbuncle, they could just make it persistent and perhaps alter its behaviour so it attacks. Or responds to the summons currently being used.

i was expecting more and got a copy pasted summon , the only ppl that worked on SMN has been the art team

SMN ever since HW has always been about building up to a powerful Summon, from Dreadwyrm Trance to Summon Bahamut to Firebird Trance and Ruin IV stacks.

What EW SMN did was flip this and made all the filler after the big spell mindless ruin spam with slightly different colors, the rightfully called filler spell in prior versions of the job now taking almost 2/3rds of all the time in the job uninterrupted doing nothing but passing time until you're allowed to summon again.

What DT SMN did was not build on this at all, front loading that lopsidedness even more and building on all the wrong parts. Fester was upgraded, the action that only exists as a vestige as it used to be a central tool of the Arcanist class building upon its usage of DoTs. Why it even persisted in EW is probably because SMN would have NOTHING until level 86 besides flavors of ruin spam.

Even had SMN been given more summons between Demi summons and woke Bahamut, they don\\'t feel significantly different in function outside of those level 86 actions, something that prior versions of SMN did well, even in ARR. Dawntrail indicates that the designers didn\\'t see this as an issue. Even now, the rigidity of WHEN I MUST summon my primals in my rotation and the fact that I lose all of my Flavor Ruin charges if I summon another early (before using all its associated actions) means that I can almost never choose to use big summons back to back in a good situation, like lots of additional targets, without it ultimately hurting my damage in the end. Being able to be flexible with my rotation at all, something most every other job has in FFXIV, and especially SMN given the original design of Aetherflow, Fester and Bane, would go a long way towards making the job feel more fleshed out again, lack of functional differences between the Summons and Ruins besides the visuals non-withstanding.

If a summon happens to hit more than one target, it\\'s by chance, not by my decision, and that feels bad. This is also different than how summons have been able to be used in literally every other final fantasy game.

Meanwhile, the PvP version of SMN is interesting to play, even having multiple limit breaks (Demi Summons) that it can choose to use, and this could even be done in PvE as well; simply having both Bahamut and Phoenix deal the same damage but with Bahamut\\'s summon being an AoE would make it worth using versus Phoenix for single target damage but a group heal on trash or certain boss mechanics. The summon level 86 actions are also simply usable as cooldowns in between or during Demi Summons, something that would break up the monotony of Ruin spam. Finally, Fester is an oGCD in a mode where it matters, and also an execute dealing more damage to low HP targets. This can\\'t really be replicated in PvE given they\\'ve long moved away from actions like Misery\\'s End, Mercy Stroke and Heartbreak, but you can see that it fits with the kit and mode, whereas in PvE it\\'s simply a button you push because it\\'s there, ideally during your 2 min burst.

I am unsatisfied with DT PvE SMN, and I hope that the design team recognizes that if they keep making encounters have more interesting situations again, like multiple targets, they increase their ability to likewise make jobs have tools to address those situations, much like they did in the past (and currently in PvP).

Speaking of 7.0 and Solar Bahamut, am I the only one who gets annoyed by Lux Solaris?

Thing is like I’d love for Summoner to have access to an emergency aoe heal, especially for if the healer goes down. But considering you only get to use it in that silly 30-second window after Solar Bahamut, it always just ends up wasted unless the stars align and an unavoidable aoe goes off at the same time it’s up.

Easiest solution I can think of would be to let us hold it indefinitely after using Solar Bahamut. That way we can actually use it when it would genuinely be helpful and not just as pointless overheal lol. It’s as annoying as Everlasting Flight, what’s the point of a party wide regen that you can neither time nor hold lol.

I don't know what possessed them to include fan made Bahamut but it is completely unnecessary. More than another round of gem summons I would have liked to get rid of Ruin III, upgrade to High Ruin or change it to something else I am just so sick of it. No one was asking for another Demi summon though, that was probably the last thing anyone would have thought of to add.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SieyaM

I don't know what possessed them to include fan made Bahamut but it is completely unnecessary. More than another round of gem summons I would have liked to get rid of Ruin III, upgrade to High Ruin or change it to something else I am just so sick of it. No one was asking for another Demi summon though, that was probably the last thing anyone would have thought of to add.

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Even as someone who thinks fanfic Bahamut looks cool it makes no sense why they just added another demi then were like ‘cool we’re done’ lol.
Like the Demi rotation barely makes sense anymore. Solar Bahamut, Bahamut, Solar Bahamut, Phoenix, repeat. It takes so bloody long to even get to Phoenix that you barely even notice it’s still there between the 40 million Bahamuts lol.

Honestly it kinda feels like laziness rather than just a poorly implemented idea. Like, there are so many different routes they could’ve taken. Like Hydaelyn / Zodiark Egis that available on a longer cool-down than the other summons, maybe these ones let you skip Ifrit/Garuda/Titan but have longer cast times / higher potency in exchange. Idk I’m not a developer but like, even my bad fanfic ideas feel more thought out than Solar Bahamut