Viper directional change is fine only if they affect the Dreadwinder followups

Hunter's Coil and Swiftskin's Coil losing their positionals would allow breathing room for most players while maintaining the flow of melee3s. I can see the majority playerbase having a few issues double-weaving into opposite positionals.

It's only REALLY bad if they took out the melee3 positionals, which I feel is more the identity of the job than even Reawaken.

The main worry is what else they're changing, because they also mentioned changing more than just positional requirements... .

No.

The problem is that you don't understand how positionals work. All you have to do is stand on the edge of the double line on the SE or SW intercardinal, and either take a step to the left or to the right. I see too many people who say this doing egregious 90-degree rotations because they don't understand how to minimize movements, and think they ONLY need to move in place ONLY when the button positional tells them to (we see this a lot on SAM and DRG players who wind up getting themselves or party members killed in the process).

Old-school MNK mains understand the concept of "straddle this line and DO NOT MOVE until the positional swaps once every 3 moves". It is meant to be a Muhammad Ali-style "float like a butterfly, sting like a bee" rope-a-dope kind of maneuver. For Hunter's Coil and Swiftskin's Coil, during the opener, you just gap-closer into the boss and don't move, and then as the tank turns the boss you hit your positionals automatically. Outside of your opener, it's just a bobbing and weaving style of thing, you have a free positional move, then you take a step to one side, then a step to the other.

This is NOT difficult, nor does it really accomplish anything to "allow breathing room for most players,". It makes things more brain-dead and effortless FOR YOU, so speak for yourself. DPS jobs already have hand-holding mechanics by outright telling you with the dotted-line marquee what move to use next in the sequence. Previously, we the players were responsible for figuring out how the job works ourselves and playing accordingly, and making conscious decisions in the moment about what to use and why was an important part of what kept our attention, because let's face it... the game is already incredibly easy, and if people get too bored, they're going to quit. I am already offended by the hand-holding combo mechanics, and the fact that SE needed to color-code the positionals because I'm not stupid, know how to read and can figure it out by looking at the tool tips myself. If anything, since I know my positional practices from my MNK days, I'd say we need MORE positionals to teach better habits, rather than continuing to give players ways of AVOIDING LEARNING when the mechanic is as simple as "take a step to the left, then to the right,". This is not hard, and you are 100% wrong. If you can't hit your positionals, either your tank sucks at keeping the boss straight and you don't know how to adjust, or you aren't using True North for mechanics where you'd need to... for just two moves. This is the living definition of a skill issue, not a problem with the job.

You already have colour-coding on positionals (red for rear and green for flank) on two of the moves. Too much has already been removed from melee DPSes, nothing more needs to be taken away or it gets too boring for players.

Leave Viper alone. Either learn how positionals work and stop whining, and go play something else instead.

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Originally Posted by ValStormbreaker

No.
You already have colour-coding on positionals (red for rear and green for flank) on two of the moves. Too much has already been removed from melee DPSes, nothing more needs to be taken away or it gets too boring for players.

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You can learn to read as well. I'm fine with the current Viper positionals, but evidently there is enough feedback from other players, likely those who don't do savage but still want to perform well if the jp forums are indicating anything, who can't hit their positionals during dungeon bosses (of which there are many who move and reposition regardless of the tank's input) and are having difficulty pre-True North into positional double weave positional, even with moving 1 yalm / 1 meter over. So if Viper needs to lose something to satisfy the jp community, it's better for the dreadwinder coils to be lost than the melee 3s.

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Originally Posted by xfm0

evidently there is enough feedback from other players, likely those who don't do savage but still want to perform well if the jp forums are indicating anything, who can't hit their positionals during dungeon bosses

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Any such feedback is meaningless because whoever is complaining played the damn class for less than a week. "Oh no I can't play this new class perfectly in brand new dungeons with new mechanics after a few days please simplify it" is NOT something that the devs should listen to, ever.

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Originally Posted by Taliriah

Any such feedback is meaningless because whoever is complaining played the damn class for less than a week. "Oh no I can't play this new class perfectly in brand new dungeons with new mechanics after a few days please simplify it" is NOT something that the devs should listen to, ever.

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Agreed. I hope they rescind their plans before the actual patch comes out, but considering they removed the exact thing from DRG (no more fang into claw/claw into fang), it would be disappointing but wouldn't be surprising if they go through with it.

a better solution would be to have them color coded like the main melee combos. The main issue I think is that most people forget they even HAVE positional on those skills. I know I do in the heat of the battle. And that's even with having them on the same buttons as I have the same positionals for my reaper that I almost never miss unless the party is stacking at the rear for something. The color would be a good reminder.

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Originally Posted by xfm0

...and are having difficulty pre-True North into positional double weave positional, even with moving 1 yalm / 1 meter over. So if Viper needs to lose something to satisfy the jp community, it's better for the dreadwinder coils to be lost than the melee 3s.

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I have a pretty hard time hitting my Dreadwinder positionals and double weaves pre-true north as well. That's mostly due to true north unlocking at 50 and Dreadwinder at 65. The only positionals you have pre-True North are on your 1-2-3. If people can't manage to hit those, Dreadwinder is the least of their concerns.

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Originally Posted by ValStormbreaker

No.

The problem is that you don't understand how positionals work.

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Do you understand that girls find it creepy when someone obsesses over something really weird like this lmao

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Originally Posted by xfm0

evidently there is enough feedback from other players

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Feedback from players who don't know what the actual fuck they're talking about isn't helpful; it's harmful. SE shouldn't listen to them.