SPOILERS - I have questions about calamities and the order of events from DT

My question below contains some MSQ SPOILERS:

What is the order of events for the Alolo Island lalas escaping the 5th Ice calamity and founding the Milalas?

I thought the 2nd calamity was lightning, so the 12th already merged with the source at this point?

So how did the lalas escape to the 12th during the 5th calamity if it was already rejoined?

Basically it only makes sense if the lalas were transported also back in time, to the pre calamity 12th?

We know time travel is possible, so is the Key Artifact that we have also doing some time travel shenanigans? I'm guessing this means visiting merged shards is now back on the table cause the Key can bring us to a point in time pre-merge?

There are perhaps 2 things to keep in mind.

Firstly, all talk in game about the Lalafell escaping to a different shard is phrased as speculative, as there is currently no way to prove that hypothesis. Even when Y'shtola looks at the big gate she can only presume it leads to another shard. It wouldn't be the first red herring we've had.

Secondly, shards are alligned not just by element, but by polarity. That's how the First and Thirteenth can be aspected to light and dark, or passive and active. As such there would still be another lightning aspected shard that the Lalafell could go to.

It's also worth noting that...

...the lightning disaster that hit Sphene's shard cannot have caused it to be rejoined, as she mentions that the dome was constructed after that point.

That's not to say that it couldn't have been rejoined at a later point in time, but that would make the timeline even more convoluted. I suspect it's more likely that this is just another shard that happens to be lightning-aspected, not the Twelfth.

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Originally Posted by Layte_Aeon

Firstly, all talk in game about the Lalafell escaping to a different shard is phrased as speculative, as there is currently no way to prove that hypothesis. Even when Y'shtola looks at the big gate she can only presume it leads to another shard. It wouldn't be the first red herring we've had.

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The gate Y'shtola mentions say it leads to another reflection because it's pretty much similar to a voidgate, on top of a whole area merged by interdimensional fusion. The entrance to the City of Gold leads to the same place sicne Krile's parents were from there and build using the same material and technology.
As for where the Lalafell moved from : no way to prove an hypothesis, but there's conclusive arguments they were from the Source. Given they used an artifact meant to do interdimensional stuff, and moved from a world imbalanced toward Ice (warm sea freezing during the course of a lifetime? Unlikely.) to one Lightning-aspected is enough to conclude they did switch dimension.

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Originally Posted by Spoiler level 100

Krile: For an event that froze the seas, the Fifth Umbral Calamity comes to mind─that which ushered in the Age of Endless Frost.
Krile: And legend holds that, during that age, the entire population of the south sea isles vanished overnight.
G'raha Tia: The art of arcanima, too, traces its roots to the calculations of the south sea islanders. While we cannot outright conclude that these people were the Milallas, there are at least enough points of similarity to support the theory.

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Originally Posted by 17cupsofcoffee

It's also worth noting that...

...the lightning disaster that hit Sphene's shard cannot have caused it to be rejoined, as she mentions that the dome was constructed after that point.

That's not to say that it couldn't have been rejoined at a later point in time, but that would make the timeline even more convoluted. I suspect it's more likely that this is just another shard that happens to be lightning-aspected, not the Twelfth.

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We're literally going to Living Memory, so the shard still exists. and the gate at the top of the eleventh level of Solution Nine, where we fight Zoraal Ja is a gateway to her original shard, since there was no Interdimensional Fusion before he used the artifact.
It was merged from somewhere that still exist, somewhere we can open a portal to, and somewhere we walk around. So pretty much not rejoined.

Isn't it stated or at least heavily implied though that Living Memory isn't the actual home of Sphene and her people, and that it is a recreation from the memories of the people that did live there?

So it could still theoretically be that their world is the twelfth, and that Living Memory is a bubble world existing outside of the shards and source, surviving off the aether of other worlds?

That...Would end up with a hilariously silly miscalculation on the Ascian's part I don't see happening. After the 13th fell to the Flood of Darkness, I imagine they were very careful to not make mistakes, and leaving behind parts of the aether that was supposed to go to the source is a pretty big problem on their end.

Could be wrong. Just seems unlikely. To me it all sounds closer to a shard being prepped for Calamity 9, but with no Ascians babysitting it, it went a little out of hand until the shard basically ended up with Electric Eulmore.

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Originally Posted by Gralna

So it could still theoretically be that their world is the twelfth, and that Living Memory is a bubble world existing outside of the shards and source, surviving off the aether of other worlds?

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about that:

As the credits began to roll you see the barrier dissipate to show an UNTAINTED atmosphere, and the realm did not implode. This implies not only a reflection that is whole, but one that has HEALED and potentially has healthy societies elsewhere to explore. This subtle bit of hope was a nice touch that makes me less angry at the glaring continuity issue of the levin bubble persisting after the events of the 2nd trial

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Originally Posted by Teah_Kaye

No, LM is explicitly stated to be in another reflection. It's the top level of Everkeep that didn't move over from its home world like the rest.

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Regarding this..

Once the portal was closed and the process ended, how did this not collapse utterly due to the foundation vanishing to the source?

I swear to the 12 the person in charge of continuity must have been either on sabbatical or fired between ShadowBringers and this expansion.

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Originally Posted by plasmacutter

Regarding this..

Once the portal was closed and the process ended, how did this not collapse utterly due to the foundation vanishing to the source?

I swear to the 12 the person in charge of continuity must have been either on sabbatical or fired between ShadowBringers and this expansion.

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well a point to note:

about continuity, did you notice that the event of endwalker didn't affect tural?i means the whole people turning into monster killing each other and such? because i doubt tural was a place filled with rainbow and such...
about the number we can't even know if it's the same reflect, don't forget that if it did indeed fuse with the primal world, the 12th can't exist anymore, then it's technically another one... another point, where do come this technology? i means even ascian didn't have a technology allowing them to cross between reflect with them body, it's said a lot of time.... that some weird stuff... i feel the story was not double check and continuity is messed up badly in dawntrail.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

well a point to note:

about continuity, did you notice that the event of endwalker didn't affect tural?i means the whole people turning into monster killing each other and such? because i doubt tural was a place filled with rainbow and such...
about the number we can't even know if it's the same reflect, don't forget that if it did indeed fuse with the primal world, the 12th can't exist anymore, then it's technically another one... another point, where do come this technology? i means even ascian didn't have a technology allowing them to cross between reflect with them body, it's said a lot of time.... that some weird stuff... i feel the story was not double check and continuity is messed up badly in dawntrail.

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Just wanted to note

The Ascians didn't have time travel, either, because Emet Selch wanted to question the Exarch about it. It's entirely possible for things to be done that the Ascians can't natively do. Frankly, for all we know the key existed as a way to bring about a Calamity that failed because, well...It was used at the wrong time.