Ninja AoE

It's come to my attention through reddit ,Yt and the forums that most people use Doton through Ten Chi Jin (ability) saying it's a dps loss to use suiton/meisui and instead use 3-1-2 even while not getting the Hollow Nozuchi bonus with their first Katon . To me it doesn't make sense .

I go Doton > TCJ(2-1-3) > /weave (Meisui/Bunshin) > PK > /wve Mug/Kass > Goka > first HFM (or insert into weapon combo) > Katon > WS1/WS2/WS1 > Doton > WS2/WS1 > 2nd HFM

The reason Doton in TCJ doesn't make sense to me is
1) by not having it down at the beginning is an automatic dps loss , you'll be behind a few ticks
2) loss of 50 potency for casting Katon before Doton
3) loss of use of 2nd HFM in a timely matter by not using meisui (gonna be more prevalent when we get AOE TA)
4) loss of 80x2 potency and 10 ninki for your first AOE combo as you won't have Bunshin activated until you do 2 gcds/mug instead of going straight into it through Meisui . This way you also get your 2nd HFM a gdc faster

also you get your first HFM before ever touching you 1/2 combo with PK/mug

Sorry for listening to me ramble lol . I just needed to let out my take on it.
With DW around the corner I'd hate to see these shenanigans while I lvl up all my jobs to 100 . I feel like I've laid my case with reasonable logic

Speaking of DT rotation I'm thinking I'll try it out like this

Huton > Doton > Kunia's Bane > TCJ(2-1-3) > /weave (Meisui/Bunshin) > PK > /wve Dokumori/Kass > Goka > (insert Tenri Jindo/HFD somewhere in the next 3 gcds ) WS1/WS2/WS1 > Doton > WS2/WS1 > HFM

Not to say that you're wrong, but it's also important to keep in mind that, at least in normal dungeons, the difference doesn't matter at all. I say this as someone who sacrifices some damage on trash (namely, 2-minute CDs) to be able to do full openers on bosses (because NIN opener is fun), so take that as you will.

That being said, Tenri Jindo is looking tasty on trash mobs, so I may have to reconsider in DT.

The potency lost from the Katon you didn't cast in order to cast Doton normally is more than the potency gained from your method on AE pulls. You're trading 350 potency for 210 basically.

But as Equitable_Remedy said, in the end it's such a small dps loss it's negligible anyway. It's like a single GCD difference.

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Originally Posted by Eudyptes

The potency lost from the Katon you didn't cast in order to cast Doton normally is more than the potency gained from your method on AE pulls. You're trading 350 potency for 210 basically.

But as Equitable_Remedy said, in the end it's such a small dps loss it's negligible anyway. It's like a single GCD difference.

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I guess this is the exact point I'm trying to make , when yall say is it's a 140 difference to use Katon but not considering the loss in other ways in the overall rotation which is a bigger difference then you realize . -50 from no HN bonus , -160 from your first weapon skill combo by not having bunshin active , 2-3 ticks of Doton -(160/240p) and not using a 2nd hfm . Just throwing doton alone at the beginning makes up for what you think you're getting with Katon w/o the other factors a mentioned above


Gonna be even more in DT if you can't compress it in a 15 sec window . Hell Katon won't even be used for first pulls ouside of TCJ now in DT . ..... I'm just saying

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Equitable_Remedy

Not to say that you're wrong, but it's also important to keep in mind that, at least in normal dungeons, the difference doesn't matter at all. I say this as someone who sacrifices some damage on trash (namely, 2-minute CDs) to be able to do full openers on bosses (because NIN opener is fun), so take that as you will.

That being said, Tenri Jindo is looking tasty on trash mobs, so I may have to reconsider in DT.

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Trust me I get it especially as someone who is BiS just melting everything, I usually never use my 2 mins but we'll be going into DT fresh feeling like weak sauce and we'll most likely always have our 2 min refreshed at least for a while lol . Might as well go full optimized boom boom til then

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ilyn

I guess this is the exact point I'm trying to make , when yall say is it's a 140 difference to use Katon but not considering the loss in other ways in the overall rotation which is a bigger difference then you realize . -50 from no HN bonus , -160 from your first weapon skill combo by not having bunshin active , 2-3 ticks of Doton -(160/240p) and not using a 2nd hfm . Just throwing doton alone at the beginning makes up for what you think you're getting with Katon w/o the other factors a mentioned above


Gonna be even more in DT if you can't compress it in a 15 sec window . Hell Katon won't even be used for first pulls ouside of TCJ now in DT . ..... I'm just saying

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I think you might be overestimating how much you lose in the setup tbh. You can't Doton til everything stops, right? So if you are using Katon on the approach then immediately stop to TCJ then you are only stalling Doton for like half a GCD at most while losing on 350 potency.

But again, it's such a small difference that it really doesn't matter. Any potency gain/loss will immediately get made irrelevant in like 2 or 3 GCDs of your crit/DH fluctuation.

https://discord.com/invite/thebalanceffxiv

If you want the math you could go to the Balance Discord and ask in nin_questions.

My only gripe is that Huton has a tooltip saying it does fire damage when it's visually a dust devil kicking up leaves.