No no, it's Rise OVER Run; and other Math you get wrong. [VERY Strong Opinion; Bozja]

Good evening, want a 'Too Long; Didn't Read'?

TL;DR;Edited Edition: Unless you're a Diehard FFXII fan, don't bother with Bozja. FFXIV struggles with understanding Pacing and Difficulty, likely brought on by the Marketing dept (get them Game Time Dolla's!). It was enough to get me to stop gaming for the time it took to join this forum, and complain about it. Don't Bother with Bozja.


Welcome friends! If the Title or TL;DR didn't prepare you for this next bit, you've likely never been to Bozja. Now, I should preface this with two things, first by saying that I've been told that despite the "difficulty" with Bozja, it's not the Worst. At the moment, anyway. But if you've ever been unfortunate enough to find out about Bozja by scrolling through your Achievements, and seeing a certain, beautiful, unique, and apparently impossible to acquire mount.. you might be just like me, and just as angry.

When you think about difficulty in videogames, what do you picture? Do you think about Increased Health? Damage? Mechanics, maybe? Perhaps a little bit of stress from surprises? A lack of repetition? Perhaps a little chaos?! How about this, when you think 'Difficult', do you think 'Time'? Because if you do, you're likely Square Enix. Difficulty, it seems, is a mystery best held in awe and wonder; er, to them, anyway..

If you have no frame of reference, let me bring you up to speed. Let's assume you want the Al'iklil: You need just 50 Field Records in total. That's it! 50 Simple drops. These are not obtained from one place, Bozja, but rather many. You need just 50 records, quick and easy right? What's 50 records? 50 records, is:

#1. Grinding Mettle to Rank 25 (Millions. Literal millions of Mettle, btw).

#2. Grinding the First (for Bozja) FATE-Dungeon, an instanced.. er, instance, which requires waiting for it to proc (minimum 30m), before pairing with a random number of other players who may or may not know the fights, in an odd-number group formation of multiple groups of players of any composition.

#3. Grinding Lost Finds: Imagine Loot Boxes, but imagine about 30 different kinds, of all different ranks and types, all offering random loot that can only be used in Bozja (Zadnor, Lacus Litore, etc.), which gives random amounts of uses you won't see until you use them. That's basically the jist of it, you grind, you get paid, you ask an NPC to Lootbox your abilities, that if you're not using on the regular, you're basically failing.

#4. Grinding Specific FATEs: Oh, you know, just your standard waiting for an hour for the FATE GCD to finish, then starting the first FATE, then the next.. then the next... Then you get your FATE! ..But Hark! What's that.. it's... not a guaranteed drop? Nope, not even on days of your best performance. Get that Gold Rank, my friend? Try it 20 more times, don't worry: you still won't get it. Why? Well..

1/3

#5. Grinding Specific DUELS: If you thought you were Hot Stuff, could kick it with the baddest, and Solo Delubrum like a champ? You'll be crying Tears of Blood over Bozja Duels. Why? Because not only do you have to do #4 each and every time, but to qualify, you need to take no damage from Named Attacks & AOEs, nail every mechanic every time, and do more damage/healing than everyone else, while also helping anyone you can out, because people can join from anywhere, suddenly spiking difficulty, whilst not guaranteeing that the people who joined will stay to finish. Then you have to ready yourself for battle (1-3 players max, I think) using every one of your best Essences. You get two abilities, Maximum, and then you can only have as many essences as you have unlocked the Potency to carry. Now comes the actual hard part: A knockdown, drag-out war of attrition, against a single overpowered opponent that you have to learn as you go (without YouTube, let's exclude "cheating" for a second). The only time you get practice with said fight, is if: you wait an hour, complete at least two FATEs, complete the last FATE with Impossible Aplomb, get chosen at random over everyone else (unless you solo it, then nevermind ever getting it [see below]), then you have to do more waiting, then fight. Oh! But don't make a single mistake! You won't make it. Full. Gods damned. Stop.). Why would you do this? Guaranteed drop rate on the Field Record. Well, that and so you can tell everyone you don't have a Job (I actually don't at the moment, department was dissolved..).

#6. Grinding Quest Records: You can't complete Bozja, without completing Bojza. I mean, that's a bit of a duh, but I mean that you have to complete the entire story for all the Records available. I like this, to be fair, but that still means Rank 25; at Rank 19 I need 11M+ Mettle, to give you an idea of what the numbers start to look like.

SURPRISE #7 from Edit: Oh, I forgot to mention, you die? You lose Mettle. You release? You lose a LOT of Mettle. Oh, and yes, you can die, be raised, immediately killed again by coincidence, and STILL LOSE METTLE. Failure isn't just failure, it's Punished. Any trolls nearby? How about a Sage that "rescues" you into an AOE? That's lost Mettle..


What does all this equate to? Difficulty- in the form of Time Gating. Who says it's impossible to finish a duel? I do. I watched one person in my server Grind out FATEs for Three Days Straight, and every time I watched him fight, he failed. It wouldn't be terribly difficult, in fact- it'd be fun... ! If it didn't take 72 Hours to practice one fight, just a handful of times, and still not beat it. I've bothered, I've tried desperately, but to no avail. Want an Example? 'Murder Death Kill'

2/3

In the 3rd zone of Bozja, you can spawn a FATE called 'Murder Death Kill'. If you want to earn a place in a Duel, this is likely going to be one of your first. Why? Easy fight. It drops one AOE at a time, and is very generous with the time to dodge. Why is this a problem? I've solo'd it no less than five times, and four of those runs I never got hit by any AOE, no named attacks hit, no damage under half my health, and nailed it Solo. Never qualfied for the Duel. Not. One. Time. Put this in perspective: That's no less than 7 hours dedicated to getting only 1 Field Record; I still don't have it.

Solo? Maybe you can do it. Solo Sage? Apparently not. I main Sage and I feel like an idiot, having never qualified a single time for any Duel. Now imagine competing for the right against players with decades of experience. Difficult? No. Just time consuming, frustrating, and frankly unfair. Side note: You can grind to 25, grind up a bunch of Lost Finds of the best kind, and jump in at the ground level to qualify against complete newbies. Just fyi. If you're Alone..: You're probably not getting anywhere. You can do much and more solo in Bozja, heck- I prefer it at times. But there's more you can't do alone*. If you want it done, you need to look for outside help. Not the worst, but just an expansion behind, and you already can't assume people are doing some High-Difficulty content for the giggles.. or the mount for that matter.

So what about all this preamble? To point out that, you can make anything difficult, but just pumping in a whole bunch of time in-between player efforts, does not a Difficulty make. You obviously tried to pander to the Dark Souls and Elden Ring players of the world, but you forgot to remove the 1-2 hour cooldown. So now you have Final Elden Soul by Square Enix: Time-Gate Edition.

If you want an idea of just how bad griding FATEs is in Bozja? I have only 20 total records to get from the first part, I have 18; I've already received three local achievements for FATEs alone, a fourth for Delubrum, most of Delubrum finished, Lacus Litore Memorized to the letter, Rank 21 Mettle, a whole set of Bozja gear, half a set of Law's Order, I'm getting close to capping several Lost Finds, and the only thing I've been doing since I started over 100+ hours ago? Grinding for these Records.


Time =/= Difficulty. Time is not a currency, and punishing players for playing just leaves a bitter taste in the mouth. You can probably tell I'm VERY sour about this, but- that's just it, everyone I speak to says much the same thing as I do: "I JUST need One. More. [Record. But I've done this fight X number of times, and it never drops! How long until 'Y' is back up? An hour? Gods, I wish I could queue for other things while waiting. Guess I'm done for the night; another five fruitless hours of gameplay.."



*Yes, yes. We're all very impressed. Your medal is in the mail.

I will read the whole thing, don't worry, but just to respond to your TL;DR:

My time in Bozja was one of the most fun times I've had in the game, period. Efficiency hardly matters when the content is FUN. Running around collecting goodies while a raid boss pops every few minutes was a great gameplay loop and it absolutely worked for me. This may be a controversial opinion, but Bozja runs miles around Eureka. If you hate Bozja then I suggest staying far, far away from Eureka because it's worse in every way possible. Bozja was a massive improvement, and I hope they go further in that direction in Endwalker.

EDIT: Okay I've read your post, and this is what I have to say:

I do think there is some validity to nerfing the time-gated mechanics in Bozja, simply because the content is older now. However, I don't think it's likely they'll do that since they still haven't nerfed Eureka in that way (strictly in terms of how long things take to spawn).

In my opinion, clearing the CE's without taking any damage in order to fight the 1v1 duel, and then clearing that duel, is one of the best feeling sensations FFXIV has ever had (and may ever have). Nothing compares to conquering a savage-level fight all on your own while dozens of people cheer you on on the sidelines. Yes, it takes a mastery of the mechanics, and you need to be hyperfocused, but that just makes it all the more rewarding.

And about the mount you're trying to get. There are some mounts in the game that take hundreds of hours to obtain. I should know because I'm currently trying to unlock every mount in the game. Al Iklil (or however it's spelled) isn't the worst. Yes, it's incredibly frustrating to rely on the RNG from the FATEs that drop the notes you need, but that's all the more reason to study up and conquer the 1v1 duels!

So, I will accept that Bozja isn't for everyone. But it's the effort you put in that makes the rewards feel so much more worth it. If you don't have the time for that, then fair enough (although I had a full-time job the entire time I progressed through Bozja/Zadnor/SaveTheQueen, and I have obtained every single achievement you can obtain from it). But it's certainly doable if you're willing to put in the time and appreciate the content for what it is.

murder death kill isn't the one that has a duel associated, it's vigil for the lost (z1, danzig), red choctober (z2, lyon) and metal fox chaos (z3, sart)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fulminating

murder death kill isn't the one that has a duel associated, it's vigil for the lost (z1, danzig), red choctober (z2, lyon) and metal fox chaos (z3, sart)

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With what I was read, and frankly TOLD, I really hope that isn't the case. I asked around a lot, and despite still needing record #11, I was told MDK procs a Duel.

.. so maybe add 'Bad Actors' to the number of reason Bozja should prrooooooobably still be in the hands of the Empire.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wilford111

I will read the whole thing, don't worry, but just to respond to your TL;DR:

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Fair! I won't argue that the content isn't Fun, it's just ^!@Qed! Time wise, anyway. I love the content, do not misunderstand me, I just don't care for spending 50 additional hours in a Zone I've experienced to death and back, just to eventually earn 1/50th of an achievement. It's extreme to a stupid degree, y'know?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wilford111

And about the mount you're trying to get. There are some mounts in the game that take hundreds of hours to obtain. I should know because I'm currently trying to unlock every mount in the game. Al Iklil (or however it's spelled) isn't the worst. Yes, it's incredibly frustrating to rely on the RNG from the FATEs that drop the notes you need, but that's all the more reason to study up and conquer the 1v1 duels!

So, I will accept that Bozja isn't for everyone. But it's the effort you put in that makes the rewards feel so much more worth it. If you don't have the time for that, then fair enough (although I had a full-time job the entire time I progressed through Bozja/Zadnor/SaveTheQueen, and I have obtained every single achievement you can obtain from it). But it's certainly doable if you're willing to put in the time and appreciate the content for what it is.

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I really appreciate the engagement and view you're bringing, btw, that does help put it into perspective for me a little. But I will say, that regardless of time, difficulty isn't exclusive to this. I won't beat this point, as you already agree, but I can see S.E. doing more of the same in the Future. It's the same, understandable, practice that other MMO's hold to: Grindy Content at the end of the Expansion; buy enough time to make the next one. Makes perfect sense to me (sort of)! The problem is that they lock exclusive content behind difficult things that some people will never experience or even begin to try for. WoW overcame this issue in a bit of a cheap, but effective way: Aesthetic Scaling. "You want this mount? Here it is, in all it's boring glory. Want the Majestic Member of Brilliance and Fun Times? Earn it, scrub." They basically took a basic mount, and made it fancy. This gave a clear indication of who was the brain addled- err, who had the dedication and time to invest in the hard stuff, while not snuffing the folks on the casual side. You know, like most of my IRL friends. Gamers all, but not everyone get's [expletive left out] over Elden Souls game difficulties. You want hard? Talk to me after you've played Toy Story on Sega with no Save Files.

This? Just time gating difficult content:
Players: "We want more difficult content!"
S.E.: "... ... ...Fine. But first, you'll start by waiting an hour for a timer to expire..."

I'm used to earning my way, I relish challenges in ways many others don't; IRL, at least. Hiking, snowboarding, skateboarding without elbow pads, that sort of thing. But ask me to beat my head against the desk with repeatedly attempting the same fight X number of times, but force an hour and a half in-between chances with no way to queue for other things (LIKE GRINDING PEDIGREE 9 CHOCOBOS- WHY, SQUARE, WHY IS EVERYTHING INSTANCED?!), and suddenly it's a costly chore with only 1 Reward. Only one. Just that and bragging rights. It's just too much..


EDIT: I wasn't calling anyone brain addled, I just can't wrap my tiny brain around spending more than 10 hours on a mount. I'm spending precious life time on this, I wants me a return! X3

I mean Bozja is my favorite content to do with good lost skill set and essence you can be a one man army it got a pretty good story too it finish on a cliffhanger so I hope we get to see more in DT. it is a big grind but that was the funniest grind I had in the game just me alone in my bubble with some random for instence with my lost actions to survive and do a lot of damage and just having a plain battlefield ready for you to burn it down to the ground I honestly could have not ask for better content than that. I did it for the thrill of it for the glory of it not for the mount or the relic

BY THE BY, A STORY:

I began my foray into Zone Three of Bozja as everyone likely does, by hitting up the Lost Finds cache. I fill up my holster with my Healing Ready One loadout, get comfy, and take a look at the map. A quick scroll, a scan.. a FATE! Wrong one, guh.. twenty seemingly short minutes later, however, and there it is! Murder. Death. Kill.' My fate! Number Eleven on the Records, here I come! I roared past hordes of Magitek and Gators on my Garlond GL-II, rushing over the wetlands toward my destination.

But- Hark! There are others awaiting to start.. I begin to shower my impromptu comrades with Shields and Barriers galore, a Kardion on myself (without a party), and a thrush of boons from the Finds. I re-raise myself for good fortune, and get ready. Holding fast upon the edge of the interaction, we waited a breath, before someone asked if we were waiting on more. There were none who spoke, none who joined. So I elected to pull, and pull did I ever! I felt like being hit by a truck, because 'lo and behold, the FATE Scaled. Ah, this isn't looking so goo- * DIES *

Huh? I wait for my re-raise, but to no avail. Alas, that abhorrent 30%.. But, why did the FATE just reset? Did I lag? No.. no, I didn't. There they are, just standing there, staring at my corpse. But wait! They just jumped in, all I must needs do is simply await a resurrection... Though, I see that the boss is getting low.. A Red mage just stepped on me. Oh! The White Mage I saw.. just stepped on me. Okay, okay, maybe my Bright Red Corpse is a little hard to see in the moment. Ah well. There's always another two hours in the future..

Finally, it's dead. The machine is gone, the people are happy, and I still didn't get my notes. Ah! There they go, they've targeted me, and.. they're just leaving. They Scaled the boss and let me drop, refused to raise me, and now are leaving. Uh, okay, ahem: "Rez if available at MDK, please and thank you!" Such a thing I did shout, asking politely just once more. Ten minutes later, and my chat log makes aspersions on my personal character and fortitude; informing me of the massive amount of Mettle lost to silent cruelty. Mind, there was no requirement, no obligation on any person(s) to allay aid to a fellow Adventurer. But such experiences stay with a person. So does the list of people I've personally blacklisted, people who in 7.0, I will never see or hear from again.

I wish I would feel justified, or even fond, of removing toxic players from the peripherals. Players like Healers who "Rescue" you into failing a qualification, or like those who would trick and watch you die, for their own chance at gain. But the fact of the matter is, I'm still lost on those hours I lose to Bad Actors. Time =/= Difficulty. Difficulty =/= Fun. Fun, much as Beauty, is in the Eye of the Beholder.

Time Gating + Difficulty + Bad Actors + Loot Boxes = A Bad Experience.