The end of ARR will forever be the high-water mark for FFXIV, to me

No shade on expansions since. I loved Heavensward and especially Shadowbringers, Stormblood did some great world-building, I've enjoyed Endwalker (although it felt a bit fast-paced).

But honestly, ARR I think was just really firing on all cylinders towards the end, and that very final "event" remains *the* single most memorable beat in the story.

In fact, in a lot of ways, it feels like it was "the moment" the story really found itself... while at the same time, Heavensward slightly undermined the impact of those events.

I also really loved Revenant's Toll as the "end-game capital", it truly had that "Final Fantasy" feel. Especially with the crazy-looking sky, it almost gave off "Hollow Bastion" vibes from Kingdom Hearts, which again, just helped give it this alien, fantastical feel.

But also, I'm probably in the minority, but I feel like FFXIV has grown just a bit too "feel-good anime" in its general vibes. The good guys seem unstoppable superheroes, both in terms of literal strength of being veritable one-man armies, but also not really having to fear danger for anything short of godlike powers.

Which, it does seem like maybe we're *starting* to scale things back a bit? And I do look forward to the whole "slice of life" vibe of Dawntrail for a bit, I'd also like to see a bit more *weight* to the narrative a bit.

There's just nothing quite like experiencing that level of *shock*, of "holy crap, there's no way this is ACTUALLY happening right now?!?", it was just something that I've never experience in any other MMO.

No specific suggestions -- it's not like there's any characters I *want* to see die, or any major events I have in mind -- but just getting back to that point of feeling like there *is* a sense of danger for our characters. Some political intrigue, where a few bad guys in power can throw our "world" in turmoil, without resorting to "magic" or otherworldly power to do so.

I also wouldn't mind seeing more of some of the old City-State leaders again. Watching through some folks playing through segments of FFXIV for the first time, I think I'm always surprised how Pipin Lolopin (Raubaun's adoptive son, who helped rescue you from Ul'dah) didn't really amount to much. I'd still love to see him get some screen time, personally.

Either way, eager to see what Dawntrail has in store for us. Just hope it isn't *totally* "feel good" and isn't afraid to deliver some emotional gut-punches from time to time.

You know, on a small tangent... People talk about characters needing to die because we haven't had any real losses in quite some time, but that's odd to me. Why does a character need to die specifically? There are other consequences of loss that can often times be far more impactful, such as when Raubahn lost an arm. He didn't die, but the impact of the story at the end of ARR changed him as a character.

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Originally Posted by Terin

But honestly, ARR I think was just really firing on all cylinders towards the end, and that very final "event" remains *the* single most memorable beat in the story.

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I mean, to me, ARR was a great story. It was the story that drew me into the game. It had curious moments, happy moments, sad moments, deaths, deep moments, exploration, moments where you save people moments where you or your friends fail, etc.

It's not that ARR was bad, it's that all the expansions just surpassed it and I don't think I've seen anyone else hold the opinion that ARR was better than all of the expansions...

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I feel like FFXIV has grown just a bit too "feel-good anime" in its general vibes.

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I don't watch anime, so from my perspective, it's just become too Final Fantasy.

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The good guys seem unstoppable superheroes, both in terms of literal strength of being veritable one-man armies, but also not really having to fear danger for anything short of godlike powers.

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It's because in Final Fantasy games, there has traditionally been a danger that surpasses anyone's imagination threatening the world, that gets stopped by 4 scruffy-haired people journeying the world. So Yoshi-P wants to match the fantastical, world-ending threats from these games.

There is just one problem with that. In those games, once you win, it's the end of the game. In Final Fantasy XIV, it's not the end of the game. So you go into the next world-ending threat with a massive PDF document of your work history:

• Defeated reveered gods of the beast tribes for target practice, including Ifrit, Titan, Garuda, Ramuh, Leviathan and a moogle king.
• Defeated the cause of the most recent calamity that killed thousands of people, Bahamut.
• Defeated senior Garleans including Gauis van Baelsar.
• Defeated senior, unbeatable Garleans including Zenos yae Galvus twice.
• Liberated Ala Mhigo and Doma.
• Saved another shard from a light calamity that would result in an 8th Umbral Calamity on the source that would have destroyed life as we know it by single-handedly absorbing all its light energy and safely discarding it.
• Defeated senior acient Ascians with many times the soul density, including Lahabrea, Emet-Selch and Elidibus.
• Defeated the eldest and most powerful of primals, Hydaelyn and Zodiark.
• Traveled to the Moon for a holiday with some rabbits that like carrots.
• Came up with the key component to allow a space ship to function and flew it to the other side of the galaxy.
• Defeated a being of pure despair that wiped out all other civilisations in the galaxy and was about to wipe out ours.
• Took the void world, otherwise known as the thirteenth dimension, onto a pathway to restoring itself, finally, after always been seen as an unsavable source of voidsent.
• Defeated the reveered mythical gods that have long influenced every nation in the world, the Twelve, by casually walking into the heavens and asking them if I can kill them. They said yes.

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No specific suggestions -- it's not like there's any characters I *want* to see die, or any major events I have in mind -- but just getting back to that point of feeling like there *is* a sense of danger for our characters.

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What's clear to us all now is they never had any intention of threatening the main characters. They are like the Scooby-Doo or Simpsons cast. Although you can think people died in Heavensward and ARR, it was an illusion, because those characters were created just before HW so that they could die in HW, while the deaths in ARR were people we'd only met very briefly or didn't even know. The few scions we lost were people they couldn't salvage from 1.0 and just wanted to write them out from the start.

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I also wouldn't mind seeing more of some of the old City-State leaders again. Watching through some folks playing through segments of FFXIV for the first time, I think I'm always surprised how Pipin Lolopin (Raubaun's adoptive son, who helped rescue you from Ul'dah) didn't really amount to much. I'd still love to see him get some screen time, personally.

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I've seen Pipin return many times in the MSQ, in job quests and role quests. I see the city state leaders return all the time in the MSQ, in role quests and in seasonal events.

Same, ARR in all its facets was better than anything we got after. The only thing the other expansions did better was Field explorations (eureka and bozja).

ARR had: Dots on almost all classes/jobs, meaningful use of open world, or at least the most use of it compared to future expansions, a more political and serious MSQ which dealt with the nature of countries and peoples, a denser open world, very unique jobs mechanically from each other, a well thought out relic system, dungeons with a lot of mechanics (pharos sirius even after the nerfs still wipes parties, this is unheard of in dungeons past stormblood), etc

I'll forever miss War's unchained mechanic.

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Originally Posted by ty_taurus

You know, on a small tangent... People talk about characters needing to die because we haven't had any real losses in quite some time, but that's odd to me. Why does a character need to die specifically? There are other consequences of loss that can often times be far more impactful, such as when Raubahn lost an arm. He didn't die, but the impact of the story at the end of ARR changed him as a character.

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I'm okay with characters not dying, but baiting deaths is the most boring thing a writer can do.
Fairy tail is one of the worst media about this that i've seen
I'm of the opinion you don't have to kill characters to tell a good story, but it is very annoying when you try and have your cake and eat it too (y'shtola is a good example in ff14)

There have been better moments in the game than the end of ARR.

What makes the ARR ending stick in memory so much is it was so out of the blue unexpected. While the MSQ was obviously leading up to some great turmoil, I don't think anyone anticipated that SE would take things as far as they did.

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Originally Posted by Reimmi

I'm okay with characters not dying, but baiting deaths is the most boring thing a writer can do.
Fairy tail is one of the worst media about this that i've seen
I'm of the opinion you don't have to kill characters to tell a good story, but it is very annoying when you try and have your cake and eat it too (y'shtola is a good example in ff14)

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A good part depends on what the story is about. Most stories aren't about events that would generally lead to death.

This has been a story about a fierce battle against the odds. People on all sides die in battles. A lot, especially when one faction is very powerful compared to any others.

It feels strange when no one is dying except those on the antagonist side. I agree that Y'shtola is a good example of it being done wrong, especially after the conversation between her and Master Motoya at the end of our first meeting. While I'm sure that was intended as a demonstration of just how powerful the Ancients were compared to contemporary races, no one should have 3 "get out of jail free" cards even if they're a cat (and I'm not looking forward to watching 5 more getting used).

At this point the only deaths I ever expect are those of new characters.

That said, my money is Galool Ja being the new sacrificial lamb in 7.0 so it can be a motivating factor for his children to accomplish...whatever it is ends up coming after the succession business.

Many comments online and people around me don't like ARR story at all

However, I don't care what they say. I like ARR story very much, all the way through 2.5.

The point about becoming an anime feels good is 100% correct. You can clearly see the tropeyness and tbh immaturely crafted character writing rise in ShB. The more mature down to earth writing has been overseeded by this very anime style trope fest and quite frankly it's pretty jarring to look at after being here from ARR. Also you pretty much have to forget we are almost a god at this point in power level because they didn't have our powers taken or diminished in any way.
I'm guessing DT story will be very much the same with yshtola being immortal god who does the occasional out of character laughing scene, graha will be simping his pants off to us as always (how can a 100 year old man who had to care for an entire world be reduced to this...) and estinien will have a pantless scene this time??? As you can see every character is being build with a trope at this point. I just hope theres some semblance of the magic that was in previous expacs left because EW almost killed the game for me.

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Originally Posted by Solakor

The point about becoming an anime feels good is 100% correct. You can clearly see the tropeyness and tbh immaturely crafted character writing rise in ShB. The more mature down to earth writing has been overseeded by this very anime style trope fest and quite frankly it's pretty jarring to look at after being here from ARR. Also you pretty much have to forget we are almost a god at this point in power level because they didn't have our powers taken or diminished in any way.
I'm guessing DT story will be very much the same with yshtola being immortal god who does the occasional out of character laughing scene, graha will be simping his pants off to us as always (how can a 100 year old man who had to care for an entire world be reduced to this...) and estinien will have a pantless scene this time??? As you can see every character is being build with a trope at this point. I just hope theres some semblance of the magic that was in previous expacs left because EW almost killed the game for me.

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This right here. They even managed to almost turn sharlayan into a stereotypical anime highschool at some points. If realm reborn was remade by these same writers the story in ul'dah would most likely have cutscenes of us shopping for jewelry and carpets and some Aladdin tropes and the like.