The term "blacklist" and "whitelist" have racist undertones, at least in the USA. Are there any plans to change the name of the blacklist to something more descriptive and in line with our values?
from https://lib.arizona.edu/employees/anti-racist-guideQuote:
Context: The association of the color black with negative, evil, wrong, or bad carries racist undertones. Because of Black people's history, associating the term black with bad can be harmful.
Alternatives: blocked list, closed list
the term blacklist
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11-17-2023, 01:42 AMivyfuriosathe term blacklist
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11-17-2023, 01:24 PMTarynHNo they don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by ivyfuriosa
The origins of the terms “blacklist” and “whitelist” can be traced back to the early 17th century. These words were used in the context of labor relations in order to identify individuals who were either banned (blacklisted) from employment or granted special permission (whitelisted) to work under specific conditions.
Ironically, they were terms created to root out trolls. -
11-18-2023, 10:33 AMRongwayThe association of white and black with the respective lists was of course chosen for the "purity" of the color white and the "uncleanness" (disrepute, shame, disgrace, suspicion) of the color black. These are the same color connotations that drove (still drive) racist mindsets for hundreds of years, so trying to excuse the list terms by claiming the lists themselves had nothing to do with race would be disingenuous.Quote:
Originally Posted by TarynH
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11-18-2023, 10:43 AMLilimoLimomo
Broadly speaking, if black players pushed for these terms to be changed, I would support such a change. But if they don't, then I don't see a reason to, as that would suggest it's not a meaningful issue to the people it would impact and the change would serve no one.
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11-18-2023, 10:52 AMLilimoLimomo[does a quick search]Quote:
Originally Posted by TarynH
The first published reference to blacklisting of an employee dates from 1774. This became a significant employment issue in American mining towns and company towns, where blacklisting could mean a complete loss of livelihood for workers who went on strike.
Ah, so the miners — who were famously mistreated and poorly compensated by their employers — that went on strike to push for improved working conditions were "being trolls"? That's certainly one way to interpret that situation. -
11-19-2023, 03:26 AMTarynHYes, labor unions were a huge issue for companies back then. Mostly they were corrupted and run by the mob. They used tactics of fear, intimidation and threats of violence to get their way. They didn't just go on strike. And yes, any employee that whispered about unionization was usually blacklisted by companies. It was one thing to talk about horrible work environments, and a completely different thing to have your company run by the mafia.Quote:
Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo
However, where does it mention race?
The terms existed long before America at any rate.
While I concede to your first sentence, I vehemently disagree with your second sentence. That line of thinking in itself is fundamentally flawed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rongway
Just because you associate white with something that is clean, good, or pure, doesn't mean you automatically associate those same terms with skin color.
And just because you associate black with something that is shady, dirty, or evil, doesn't mean you automatically associate those same terms with skin color.
Where does it end? Black Mage? White Mage? Dark Knight?
Is the next thread going to be about getting rid of Black Mage, based on the sordid history of black magic and the witch trials? Do we immediately associate the color "black" in it to a skin color? Or does it have to do with the type of destructive magic it casts?
Do we discuss the reasons why only white magic can be curative? Is it because it is inherently racist and the only "pure" mage? Or is it because white is associated with supportive magic?
Doesth thine Dark Knight bringeth thee plague? Shouldst thou break bread with thee?
People need to just stop with the redeemer act. Stop placing "issues" where none exist, or at least don't exist out of small university think tanks where they come up with this nonsense. -
11-19-2023, 05:45 AMCanadane
Umbralist and Astralist.
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11-19-2023, 07:26 AMElissar
A color is just a color
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12-11-2023, 03:26 AMTelkira
At the risk of sounding rude, this is a ridiculous post. There are no racial/racist undertones to be had with the terms 'whitelist' and 'blacklist'.
It's so silly, I can't even humor it with a straight face.
I've worked for companies that tried to transition to 'allow-list'/'deny-list', only for it to generate confusion and be criticized for having no factual basis to support it and be reverted months later.
The terminology employed by the game since launch is fine. It does not need to be revised, nor corrected. People are also generally intelligent enough to distinguish and relegate the value of certain words based on the context by which they are used.
I don't use terms like 'straight' 'gay' or 'queer' to describe one's preferences/orientation in a formal or serious context because those terms feel inappropriate, but I'm not going to interpret someone's use of 'straight' vs 'queer' to denote things like normalcy for these things because I and others are smart enough to know that preferences/orientation at a population level are far too nuanced and complex to be simplified by such a simplistic classification hierarchy.
I'd expect people to do the same with things like 'blacklist'/'whitelist' with regard to racial matters.