Which healer next... Sage or Sch?

So im finishing up the white mage, and im really enjoying it, but want to also do a barrier healer.

I like the idea of the Sage having played a Disc priest in WoW but im really concerned about how it handles burst healing and wall to wall pulls in dungeons for either of them as thats always a weakness of barrier healers in these games.

Which is going to handle that better for leveling and solo healing? Which has the better toolkit overall? It seems maybe Sch might be better suited for this but im not a fan of its optics.

A few hints to help make that decision would be appreciated.

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Originally Posted by maolconaire

I like the idea of the Sage having played a Disc priest in WoW but im really concerned about how it handles burst healing and wall to wall pulls in dungeons for either of them as thats always a weakness of barrier healers in these games.

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Any healer can handle wall to wall pulls in dungeons. Barrier healer's weakness in wall-to-wall pulls is a misunderstanding due to how the kit works as far as FFXIV goes. Every healer other than WHM has a plethora of oGCD healing you use between GCDs to act as their burst healing. The difference between WHM and other healers is how the resources are being managed, which only starts becoming more prominent at lv 50 onwards.

The advantage WHM has over other healers is that their burst heal is "on-demand" in the sense that they can always force consistent big AOE healing through Cure III and further increase that through Plenary when everything's beyond screwed, provided they have MP. However, in terms of just burst healing for a quick fix? Every other healer can do that as long as you are using your cooldowns appropriately and not burning through healing for no reason.

All Healers handle damage in 2 ways - pre-emptively and reactively. For a Pure Healer like WHM, majority of the healing is focused reactively and mainly focused on a couple of skills. For Barrier healers, the toolkit is designed so you don't have to face that many situations where you need burst healing in the first place. There is more emphasis in pre-emptive healing than reactive healing - it's more important to reduce excessive healing because a portion of the damage gets blocked pre-emptively through mitigation, so you don't necessarily need as much consistent big heal numbers like WHM's Cure III to handle the remaining burst healing. For mechanics with high damage, Barrier healers don't have an issue with keeping people alive as long as they use various healing oGCD skills, and that's what matters since you aren't a WHM who can leverage their entire MP bar in a short period of time. If it's a mechanic like Doom where everyone dropped to 1 HP, barrier healers can still heal it, but it'll burn a lot of oGCD healing resources to do so, which may leave you with only MP as your only resource left for healing (and you can still heal with your MP bar as a barrier healer until your other cooldowns are ready, but your consistent healing efficiency isn't as high as your ability to burst heal is primarily split more on your free oGCD heals). Hence, you have to budget your resources well to ensure you don't run into a state where you're just left with an abundance of MP that you can't use efficiently and the party is still taking high amounts of damage that exceeds what your GCD shields can provide.

For SGE in particular, they stack healing modifiers like Physis II's Autophysis buff + Krasis on a target to amplify their burst healing effectiveness in a short time period. In fact, as long as you're appropriately geared, SGE has the easiest healing potential because of this in wall to wall pulls. Damage will generally not exceed your layers or mitigations and regens. The main thing you have to remember is that damage in fights isn't very bursty straight up, but comes out in waves or intervals. The only time damage is really high is in wall-to-wall when your tank isn't mitigating or badly geared, but any healer will feel a larger pressure in that case.

In wall to wall pulls at level 90, SGE fits the burst healer definition way better in the sense that they can just block a ton of damage through their Haima/Panhaima shields. Lots of mobs doing weak auto attacks is what makes these shields get full value. Right as you enter combat after the wall-to-wall pull has been stabilized, SGE can start with: Krasis + Physis II + Kerachole -> this sets up your double regen + mitigation + allows you to DPS and let your Kardia act as a third regen as long as the damage has slowed down enough where you can still DPS and oGCD heal in between. Then you'd swap between Haima or Holos+Panhaima+Soteria for additional healing in wall-to-wall pulls. You can even use Zoe + Pneuma as a one-time strong Plenary + Cure III burst at lv 90 depending on your needs.

Against bosses with very heavy one-hit raidwide damage, you may want to take SCH instead (Consolation x2 charges heal and shield much more per charge than Panhaima's individual shields, so they're much better to work with in burst healing&shielding during raidwides from a boss). SCH also have more stronger GCD recovery than SGE imo, as you can forcibly strengthen GCD healing with Fey Illumination + Dissipation (immediate aetherflow + 20% GCD strength). Kardia isn't very worthwhile as a burst heal, and only gets stronger as long as the situation is within your control where SGE can afford to DPS and not spam shields to heal.

One job isn't particularly 'better' after the recent buffs and changes, but in my experience... When mastered, SGE is better for leveling and wall to wall pulls in terms of ease. SCH is better for bossing because you can't always count on SGE's Haima shields getting full value due to the nature of the shields, but SCH also requires more technical skill to pull off due to having extra clunk in its toolkit. The difference in toolkit is negligible and doesn't really matter unless you're doing harder content where differences in skills changes the way you tackle mechanics, but that's just the bread-and-butter for figuring out how to best pre-emptive heal.

Bonus to leveling SCH is that you get a free caster DPS out of the deal, and it's currently very easy to play and tremendously strong despite that.

Keybinding 2 buttons to place your Faerie or tell it to follow you is something you don't have to do on SGE, though.

As far as the Disc comparison, though, not really. SGE gets Kardia, a targeted buff that can be on 1 party member at a time that heals them for a set amount every offensive spell you cast (170 potency, about a 3rd of a cure 1 at 90). It does not heal more with a stronger spell or crit (but does have 1 ability that buffs the next 4 casts by 70% (305 potency)). That's basically it. It's not a 'smart heal' on the lowest party member, nor is its damage particularly higher than other healers. It's basically just a functional replacement for SCH's Faerie cuz that automatically casts a heal on whoever has the lowest HP every 3 seconds. Both jobs are pretty similar despite the excellent post detailing the nuances above.

I'd say the last paragraph of AnotherPerson summarizes it quite nicely, and Post added one of SCH's nice side benefits, both are absolutely fine, I would just add that your own personal preference also comes into play as with any job. Although SGE is almost a clone of SCH they do still feel a bit different, it's isn't unusual for people to take a dislike to one or the other.

Outstanding replies to all, @another person that was.. wow... bravo.
@IDontPetLal,as yes, i get it, but its an optics/visuals thing for the between them, i much prefer how sage looks over sch.
Eventually ill do both, its just how i roll, but i have my black for dps so the added caster doesnt really do anything for me as im not fond os summoners visuals either :)
I think im going to try the sage first and see how it goes.

The additional benefit of SGE over SCH is simply that it starts at 70, meaning you have only 20 levels of levelling to do

play both, find out which one you pref.. prob solved

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Originally Posted by IDontPetLalas

I would just add that your own personal preference also comes into play as with any job. Although SGE is almost a clone of SCH they do still feel a bit different, it's isn't unusual for people to take a dislike to one or the other.

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Agreed. As much as people (collectively) speak of healers being the same, this is MOSTLY (a) the DPS skills and (b) they each have ways to address any given situation, so you can map dissimilar abilities in a similar place on your bars (e.g. Lilybell and Panham). And yet, most players have a clear preference for one over the other.

SCH feels more...methodical. You have more lag between casts. For example, Recitation needs to be weaved before Adlo, then Adlo cast, then Deploy weaved, IDEALLY after something cast just after Adlo (since Adlo's longer cast means an oGCD weave clips. This makes a sort of 1...and...2.......annnnd...3! cadence that feels more paced out, and thus needs to be more planned and executed in advance. As in, a few GCDs in advance of when you need the shielding. Seraph has a similar situation going, since if you weave some Eos ability, you want to wait for that to resolve/apply BEFORE hitting Summon Seraph, then you need to wait another GCD before Consolation will go out.

By contrast, SGE can hit Zoe, Eukrasia, Eu Prognosis. Or can easily weave Panhamia or Holos anywhere. HARDCAST Prognosis is its only 2 sec cast spell, everything else allows an easy weave with no clipping, including all Eukrasia abilities, and it has Icarus. It just feels more...zippy, I guess?

And as an aside, their aesthetics also feel different to me. SCH feels a lot "warmer". Its aesthetics prioritize greens and oranges. Just glance at the ability icons. It has some blues, but they're usually darker and cooler, like Summon Seraph. Likewise, their spell effects are warm greens and oranges in large part. SGE's, by contrast, are a lot "cooler". Blue/blue-white and purples give a more chill feel that I've best seen described as "clinical" (fitting for a magical Greek doctor). The sound effects also seem to go along with this, like SGE's Dosis' "psheeeew" vs SCH's "thump thump thumptump" Broil IV.

I honestly like both of them a lot; they definitely have a distinct feel from one another, even while being the most similar of the 4 healers.

In a nutshell, I'd say SGE is more mobile and feels responsive, while SCH feels rewarding to setup and execute step. by. step. your ability chains, and SCH is probably a little bit stronger when executed well, but does have that set-up time to factor in for those powerful abilities while SGE is a lot more responsive.

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Since you're doing them anyway, do them in whichever order. :D It SOUNDS like SGE is calling to you, so you might as well do it first. Unless you're a delayed gratification "save the best for last" type of person, in which case...SCH first. :)