Red Mages: How do you feel about the symmetry of Black and White magic?

Overall I think Red Mage is a solid and fun class, but the one thing about it that feels lackluster to me is the perfect symmetry between Black and White, where for every Black spell I have a White spell that is exactly the same, just that it generates white mana instead of black mana. And to me, that's a bit disappointing, as I wish the class defined by taking these two very different schools of magic and wielding them both was able to give each school a distinct personality, rather than simply framing it as Thunder and Fire being the polar opposites of Aero and Stone.

But that's just one player's opinion. How do the Red Mages in the audience feel?

I thought it was fine when it was introduced. The gimmick of the class was more about building to spend the melee combo and fun with dual cast while the balance aspect and proc chances on fire/stone were more just to manage.

As the job has progressed though, especially with Acceleration's EW changes and the slower build if each mana type it's not really the same as it felt before so I feel there could be some room to make it more interesting.

Especially after PVP's take on black and white mana as stances. I don't think there's room for THAT in PvE, but the spells are distinct for more than just a means to the melee combo there. Given SMN's self survivability I don't see why RDM couldn't also heal those close to Verholy's impact or put up a self Stoneskin with Verstone or whatever.

I do indeed feel like that the mage part of Red Mage does feel a little neglected, especially when Dualcast has been a huge draw to the job in previous versions of it in the FF series. It would be cool to see some variety in function for spells.

That's just my personal opinion though of course, because the truth is that XIV RDM is not a """traditional""" Red Mage and probably never will be. The premise of a jack-of-all-trades wizard that uses both White/Black magic does not really work in XIV which has focused its combat on instanced boss encounters with a rigid trinity role system. Not to say that trying to make a balance/middle ground is a futile effort of course, but more so that XIV has made it clear on what it wants its own Red Mage to be, which seems to be a magic musketeer duelist with some support elements.

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Originally Posted by VentVanitas

because the truth is that XIV RDM is not a """traditional""" Red Mage and probably never will be.

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This is unfortunately true of almost every job in the game with some few exceptions (i.e Black Mage, Dragoon). Sadly, anyone coming to ffxiv expecting ‘traditional’ final fantasy jobs is going to be extremely disappointed.

For Red Mage itself I agree that it feels more like a ‘magic swordsman’ than a ‘Jack-of-all-trades’ magic user. The melee combo already feels fun to use, so I’d like to see it using more actual magic (in whatever way that turns out to be lol)

It's funny that the PVP version of RDM actually does have what the OP asks for - two completely distinct functionalities. Not just with RDM, but a lot of the 'job fantasy' is way more realized with other job's respective PVP variations, and that's even in spite of PVP having a fraction of the actions available to the PVE counterparts.

I would say that this speaks volumes on how the cemented and homogenized pve combat system kind of falls flat when it comes to represent a job fantasy both in visuals but also in engaging mechanics.

I love how RDM currently plays, its fun, intutive and a good spread of keys without being 3 actions bars full.
only down side is it feels like the mobile could use a bump..

as far a "uniqueness" in the different magic schools, what do you expect? its a mmorpg, you are limited by what this genera is sadly, everything has to stay in the mold, so you basically get to be direct damage or dot. most they could do is what blm does the black magic can eat mana and white regain it i guess.

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Originally Posted by Mostly_Raxus

as far a "uniqueness" in the different magic schools, what do you expect? its a mmorpg, you are limited by what this genera is sadly, everything has to stay in the mold

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Oh, I certainly don't think that's the case; there's plenty they could do to mix it up, like having Vercure generate white mana or having Fire and Stone have different cast times/damage amounts/mana generation so that, for example, RDM's needed to cast 1.5 x as many White spells for each Black spell. A lack of symmetry would just make White and Black magic not feel exactly the same, as opposed to now where for the most part casting is "left foot, right foot, left foot, right foot".

None of that is to say that the things I mentioned are better, just that there are certainly different things they could do if they chose to.

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Originally Posted by Raikai

It's funny that the PVP version of RDM actually does have what the OP asks for - two completely distinct functionalities. Not just with RDM, but a lot of the 'job fantasy' is way more realized with other job's respective PVP variations, and that's even in spite of PVP having a fraction of the actions available to the PVE counterparts.

I would say that this speaks volumes on how the cemented and homogenized pve combat system kind of falls flat when it comes to represent a job fantasy both in visuals but also in engaging mechanics.

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Absolutely agree with this. Red Mage is one of the best example but I’ve found every job I’ve played in PvP more interesting than anything I can play in PvE lol, despite having so few abilities

To me, as a mechanic the Black/White Mana feels arbitrary and barebone, lackluster, whatever-you-want-to-call-it. It honestly just makes half the main-line spells feel like mere bloat.

I'd like the spells sourcing each to feel different and perhaps also for each to have its own uncombined output as an option, even if used more rarely and situationally than the current balanced expenditure (enchanted combo + follow-up). Then it might actually feel like it's doing something other than doubling up its spells into needless A|B pairs of which both halves function identically.

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Originally Posted by LilimoLimomo

Oh, I certainly don't think that's the case; there's plenty they could do to mix it up, like having Vercure generate white mana or having Fire and Stone have different cast times/damage amounts/mana generation so that, for example, RDM's needed to cast 1.5 x as many White spells for each Black spell.

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The rhythm and symmetry of RDM spells appeals to me, and it feels awkward and unpleasant when they are out of sync, as they are in early dungeons or the awkward gap in the 60s where you have Flare but not Holy.

Deliberate imbalance would be odd lore-wise, and arbitrary imbalance isn't really any more exciting than arbitrary balance.