Endwalker midcore content feedback

Hey, good morning/evening/night pals! I've decided to write this post due to the current state of Endwalker as an expansion and the content it offers, besides the usual Extremes and Savage content we're used to.

Since some of you might have read, not everyone is happy with the new content we got and there's has been several complaints about it. So, I open this space we all can share our thoughts and not let them be lost on the seas of Twitter, YouTube, Reddit and so on.

I dare say that in terms of quantity Endwalker doesn't have anything to envy to its older brother but something that Shadowbringer did pretty well, even during a pandemic, was making that content worthy of doing besides the sole pleasure of fun itself:
- Bozja/Zadnor rewarded glams, relics, and was an amazing questline in terms of lore and story-telling
- It came alongside Castrum, Delubrum and Dalriada. 3 alliance-like raids that offered a twist in what we were used to. Plus, Delubrum has a savage version that nowadays gives glams and a mount. In fact, its glams were useful for catch-up gear back in the day.
- It also added Unreal fights, a content that's still going on, and it has rotating miscellany rewards
- And a rework of the Diadem for gatherers with Ishgardian Restoration for crafters, pretty worthy for levelling and making gil.
- The Epic of Alexander (1 Ultimate)

Meanwhile, Endwalker gave us (up to patch 6.45):
- 2 Variant Dungeons (I guess to replace the lack of Adventuring Forays in this expansion)
- Eureka Orthos Deep Dungeon (content we didn't get in ShB)
- Unreal Fights is still going on
- Island Sanctuary, some kind of Stardew Valley/Harvest Moon game mode (I daresay it replaces Diadem and Ishgardian Restoration)
- 2 Ultimate fights: Dragonsong Reprisal, and The Omega Protocol (one of them was supposed to come in ShB but due to pandemic)

What I'm trying to prove here is that in terms of quantity, the expansion is not lacking as much as it might appear, at least not in my opinions. I'm personally fan of Bozja/Zadnor and even today I'm running it after levelling all my jobs. Meanwhile, I'm running Savage with static and trying luck on PF with Omega Protocol. It's true that due to working and studying, I'm less likely to run out of content than others but basing myself solely in terms of quantity the expansion is the same as the previous one.

The issue comes with the current relics and how the steps are designed: The 3 steps require getting 1500 tomes (4500 in total up to patch 6.45). How do we get said tomestones? They drop from level 90 dungeons, trials or raids while also you can get them from Rank A Hunt trains (320 tomes per train considering each hunt gives 20 tomes of causality), also you can run PvP (Frontline roulette gives 50 while Crystalline Conflict Roulette gives 20).

What are the issues of this?

1. Only level 90 jobs can get this. Leaving people who want to level their jobs out of the equation.
2. Our options are limited: roulettes are the side content that the player base run mostly, it's not giving something new from what we're used to. Making the game feel more repetitive. PvP, let's be honest, only a niche of people like it and when a lot of people run it is because of glams or time-limited rewards (won't discuss FOMO since we have plenty of time to get them, and it's not the point of this post). And then hunts are the fastest way and my favorite, but a lot of players don't like to be paying attention to a discord server to not miss it (and it's not like Discord notifications work most of the time, at least on Android, leaving it a good option if you catch it at the right time).
3. Related with the previous point. Resistance weapons offered several ways to get the relic items to get our weapons. Yeah, the 15 crystal tower runs are normally brought for this discussion, BUT we had options.

I pointed all of this even considering that I personally don't dislike the relics steps considering I have to work and study, something that is making me drop my static once next semester starts. But also, it makes me feel the game got repetitive, there's no much fun like there was in Bozja/Zadnor that we teamed up with random people and even met friends there.

And with this I bring the last matter of this situation: The midcore content is not rewarding at all

1. Eureka Orthos gives experience to level up 80-90, but no one queues it since it's more worthy and fast spamming Zadnor Zone 3 and doing the daily Arkasodara quests. Leaving it as a solo experience (which I enjoy a lot but loses its point when it comes to levelling)
2. Island Sanctuary... well, it's all cosmetics: glams, mounts, minions, and other stuff. I'm not opposed to it, but it didn't click with me and think only a niche of people enjoy it, considering what I read in social media. Despite it's welcome, I think it should be considered an extra instead of a replacer of Bozja questline or Diadem
3. Variant Dungeon can be killed in hours. Once you get all the endings, all is left is farming the currency and try luck in getting the coffer rewards (that can be obtained through market board)
4. The Another Variant gives a currency to get: lvl 10 materia and a mount. While the Another Variant Savage gives a title and more currency (this one being hardcore which is even worse)

All the content mentioned above, maybe excepting Island Sanctuary since its point is to be a chill game mode experience, could be used to farm the relics steps and save those tomes for... more relics or crafting materials. I understand the initial plan was to make it easy to get, so people can focus on returning to their old lives before the pandemic or focusing on other content while also doing Hildibrand quests as fast as possible was some kind of grind for some (not my case since I did that in ShB), but being honest what keeps you subbed to the game is savage and Ultimate and if you have a house, and both of that are only a minority of people. I still play the game since I found content to do myself (Eureka, Ultimate in PF while I can, making glams for all jobs) but I think the team should work on midcore content more. Eureka Orthos and Variant are by far my favorite additions in game for years, it's really great content, but it should be developed with a long term plan. Why don't make savage variant drop BiS pieces every week, so people can do Savage Raids and Savage Variant and get BiS faster and then grind more jobs? Or at least people like me who can't raid 8 man content due to a tight schedule at least can have it easier organizing something with other 3 and get BiS slower? You can even make Variant Savage drops the same gear as Savage raid or different looking gear with exact stats. If effort-reward balance is an issue, then make Variant drop all gear for ONE job till next savage tier comes while people who run only Savage Raids get gear faster or for more jobs, and people who do both get even more. At the end of the patch, the BiS will be replaced for crafted gear, so what's the point of making it SO important and unique if it's only useful for cheap first month/week prog gear?


With all said, I'd like to read your opinions on the matter at hand. I normally don't post here a lot so if it's a repeated post I'm sorry, I checked on the search bar but nothing appeared, that's why I made this. Also, I was planning to make another post talking more of the Variant Savage rewards and what could be reworked for the next expansion, but that's more in general terms.

Thanks for reading <3

I agree that the quantity of things, such as boss fights, user interfaces, textures, models, are all there, they are just designed in a way where you are done with them after a day. Whereas when they put the same development effort into content like eureka and bozja, midcore players were more easily able to enter this content and spend longer in it, because it was designed to stretch out over a longer period of time.

The midcore content this expansion is good, it's just not so easy to approach. For criterion, you're not likely to try or beat this without a consistent group of friends. Same with Eureka Orthos floor 100.

Whereas Eureka and Bozja did not require you to have friends, yet was able to consume lots of your time and be enjoyable in the process, with some great NM or CE fights that left bodies everywhere.

If you do criterion and Eureka Orthos, it is rewarding though because there are mounts from both.

The let-down is there not being a mount for doing level 80 raids as a blue mage. That is a way for SE to make extra content without much development effort and they didn't take it. :confused: A lot of people are in significantly less of a hurry to do level 80 raids as a blue mage without a mount being available.

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Originally Posted by Vanitax

What I'm trying to prove here is that in terms of quantity, the expansion is not lacking as much as it might appear, at least not in my opinions.

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I think the main problem isn't the quantity of new content per se, but rather the lack of long-lasting new content. A lot of the newly introduced pieces of content lack significant staying power. Due to that issue, while there may be new things being introduced, none of it lasts long enough to be enjoyable until the next patch, or even anywhere close to it. Things like Criterion and Eureka Orthos are alright for a bit, but there just isn't either the level of rewards or substance there to keep things alive. A lot of things in Endwalker are pretty dead on arrival or at best dead a few weeks afterwards. That just isn't enough when the time between major patches is over 4 months long.

To use the new example of Mount Rokkon, I've been enjoying the Variant version of it, and I'm sure I will enjoy the Criterion version of it as well. But the question is how long will it remain as such? How long will it be before the V/C section of the PF is once again a barren wasteland where you'll be lucky to fill a group, let alone get one that can clear? Given the history of content in Endwalker, it will only a few weeks tops before we return to waiting for the next patch once more.

I find 4 man content is more likely to be organized outside of the game or through closed in game linkshells/cwls rather than through party finder. Anecdotally speaking of course.

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Originally Posted by AwesomeJr44

I think the main problem isn't the quantity of new content per se, but rather the lack of long-lasting new content.

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I think if mentioned it, if not excuse me, maybe I didn't pick the best words or phrases. But yeah, EW needs a Bozja/Eureka type of content. And they still can make relics accessible for everyone, not tied to that content, but make it possible to get the upgrades through it (and why not make it faster if you do that content, so more people do it).

On my side, once I clear TOP, I'll just unsub one month and renew the next one to not lose my house in game. Considering my life is getting busier with each passing month I'd prefer spending my time in singleplayer JRPGs or at least just getting ilvl 660 with tomes and the final relic, even if it's not BiS it'll do enough damage lol

V/C dungeons are 1/10th of the content depth and play length that Bozja/Zadnor had. More people are still doing Bozja in 6.0 than ANY new Endwalker system. That is bad.

I don’t think they should do an exploration zone every expansion, but it does feel like straight up less content than ShB.

The ingredients are there in V/C to be more replayable but they weren’t left in the oven long enough. Like after Eureka and Bozja’s huge array of Lost and Logos actions, why is only a couple of variant actions to choose from? Why isn’t there more collectibles and random elements to keep people coming back? Why isn’t there progression systems like honors/mettle? In Bozja people spend hours just farming to increase their character power or for clusters, notes, fragments, and YES relic items.

If you put V/C and Bozja side by side, the lack of systems for retention in V/C is really lacking. You don’t have to make a huge area with a large raids, but this team has made repeatable and deep midcore content before so what gives?