Currently in Extremes and 4th floor Savages in a tier, the loot that will drop upon clearing will include a weapon coffer and a random job-specific weapon. I suggest instead to make it so that it is just 2 weapon coffers. With each new expansion where they add new jobs, the chances of a random job-specific weapon dropping for the job you're currently on gets lower. There's also the rare scenario with certain parties where no one plays the job for the random job-specific weapon that drops.
Coffers have the item description of "Cannot be opened in instanced areas such as dungeons, PvP areas, or raids." and because you can't have 2 of the same exact weapon coffer in your inventory at a time, there is no need to worry about a single person winning both weapon coffers. However, in a scenario such as in a static where you'd want to give 1 person both weapon coffers(because for some reason no one else wants them), I also suggest that this rule can be bypassed. For example, lootmaster bypasses the can't have 2 of the exact same weapon coffer rule. Or if no one else rolls on the weapon coffers this also bypasses that rule.
Loot suggestion: Turn the random job-specific weapon into an additional weapon coffer
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06-22-2023, 11:11 AMnguyentri11Loot suggestion: Turn the random job-specific weapon into an additional weapon coffer
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06-22-2023, 07:41 PMEorzean_username
If I recall correctly, Savage originally only dropped 1 weapon on Floor 4.
When they added Weapon Coffers to Savage in SB(?) (I think? Or was it Armor/Accessory coffers first, and then weapon coffers in ShB?), they didn't replace that drop, they just added the Coffer "for free" to the "second chest" that previously contained mostly fluff/junk like mount keys and minions.
So basically, the extra weapon is just a "bonus item". If no one wants it, none of the loot budget was actually lost.
It's one of the few non-deterministic "spin the roulette" aspects of the loot system remaining, and since it's not "stealing" any intended loot from you, it's best to just think of it as a lootbox/gacha draw or something. If you get a dud, eh. -
06-22-2023, 08:12 PMTint
"Give them an ilm and they'll take a malm."
I would rather suggest that they simply remove the random weapon and you will only get the one coffer. We don't need solutions to reduce the longevity of content any more. -
06-22-2023, 08:23 PMDeo14If you need RNG and other cheap tricks to keep players doing the content, then maybe said content isn't even worth doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tint
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06-22-2023, 08:35 PMIvtrixspoiler alert they dont do savage contentQuote:
Originally Posted by Deo14
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06-22-2023, 08:54 PMEorzean_usernameStrange take.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deo14
If you consider an extra randomized weapon a "cheap trick", what is your preferred vision for Savage loot distribution and gearing process? -
06-22-2023, 09:13 PMTintWell actually the RNG is removed when you take away the RNG weapon drop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deo14
Also where is the cheap trick anyway?
Giving a second, fixed weapon drop will just shorten the lifespan of the content. And I can ask you the same question. If you just want the weapon as fast as possible so you don't have to do the content again - is it even worth doing in the first place? Is it even fun? Seems you would rather spend your time doing other things instead. -
06-22-2023, 10:15 PMSilver-StriderThat depends on how you play the game really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tint
I find prog to be the fun part of doing content. You're learning and improving to clear the fight. Once something is on farm, it's lost all enjoyment for me and I only remain for the loot, if even that. Fighting against the RNG of rolling against 7 other people to get anything in PF is like pulling teeth and it makes a tedious grind into a chore before long if RNG constantly lowballs your rolls time and time again. Sure, the books at the end of a clear are there to counterbalance the grind from becoming too long but considering that the Weapon and Shirt require the same books, it's still a pretty long grind if RNGesus just hates you. At least with the 2nd random weapon drop, you get an extra chance of getting something and if it's for your job, then you can just win it outright, assuming no duplicate jobs in a clear. -
06-22-2023, 10:15 PMDeo14I don't do savage, so keep in mind that my opinion/idea weights fraction of the someone who actually does that. My only experience is doing p1s and p2s for few weeks in PF, and I tried p3s few times for lols.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eorzean_username
Realistically:
Remove shared loot, need/greed/pass was outdated on release, just do what every modern game does and make personalized loot, it doesn't even need to be buffed, instead of book for everyone and 4 items in chest, everyone could get 1 book and 50% chance to get item and so on.
You can refine it further by removing RNG and give guaranteed item every 2nd clear, or just buff it (there are 19 jobs and 7 gearsets anyway) and give 1 book and 1 item for everyone. There's problem that it might be item you don't need, but hey, PF already works this way, you just need on everything and hope you get anything at all, this would only even up the gap between statics and PF.
Or if you want to make it super clean and fair, keep only books and scale them up (10x more books per clear, but gear also costs 10x more), so if you clear with 8/8 people, you get 10 + 10 books, but if 1-4 people already cleared that week, you get 10 + 5 books. Then you just buy upgrade tokens/gear for books and you're done. Would it feel lame and sterile if you cleared and there was no chest? Probably, but relics are already reduced to speaking to NPC and giving it 1500 tomes, so I think this ship has already sailed.
Ideal scenario, which would make me give savage a second chance:
Stop savage from being primary way to get gear, it makes no sense to gear up, just so you can clear exact same content, but easier next week. That gear can be used for ultimates of course, but someone doing savage doesn't necessary mean they'll go for ultimates, and there are 3 tiers and only 2 ultimates anyways.
Keep gear as loot in savage just as secondary way of gearing. Make better ways to gear up, you have EXs which give only pretty much a catch up weapons and ~1% chance for mount, you have V&C which have no meaningful rewards, you have 2 types of tomes, you have crafters and gatherers which only have something interesting to do in the first week of tier, maps which are only used to farm material for glam, you have Hunts, FATEs, whatever. There's plethora of ways to make BiS gearing not only available for more people, but to make it much more diverse and interesting. My idea is that you should gear up before you start doing one of the hardest content in the game, not while you're doing it. This might also mean that tier would need to be released with much bigger offset than 1 week, but is it really a problem? We already get content like EO, V&C on .X5, would it be such a big deal if release of savage and this content was swapped, so everyone has time to gear themselves up?
Put some rewards in savage which are actually meaningful and won't be worthless in 8 months. I suggest getting inspired by GW2's raid rewards (only rewards, don't get inspired by their raid design). You should make gil by raiding, not losing it on pots and food. Raids should drop unique stuff and material, just like maps do, which are fully marketable and raiders can sell them to make profit, people who don't do savage will just buy it. This can be anything, furniture, material for glam, regular glam, whatever, you can expand it however you want, there are endless possibilities, you can make more long term progression, like legendary armor in GW2 (even though I can bet that FFXIV players will have mental breakdown if you make something unique to raids, but you can still just make it marketable).
That's about it, those are just quick, not very thought out suggestions. Problem with gearing and savage is that it is very vertical and players just run on endless treadmill. There's nothing meaningful in savage loot, even if you wanted whole dyeable savage gear set for glam purposes, then you just wait for .18/.38/.58 patch, because why would you waste your opportunity by getting non-BiS pieces of gear.
There will always be RNG with shared loot system. And exactly, is it worth doing this in the first place? It's not, which is why I don't do savage. Put something meaningful as a reward and I'll give savage a second try.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tint