Just wondering if discord is usual or it's mostly text chat.
I'm a warrior (only 50 so far) and not really looking forward to tank swaps, mostly because I think it will be difficult to monitor debuffs on other tank as well as focus on mechanics and rotation. I haven't experienced it yet, maybe I imagine it harder than it is...
I just think it would be easier/safer/more effective if a leader can call out when to swap, and/or being able to directly communicate with other tank involved. But maybe I'm overthinking it as I have no experience yet.
I only pug so far, maybe joining a company will help with this.
Side-question related to tanking...
Also, will dungeons become more linear as I level? I'm terrible at navigating, feeling like I waste other peoples time, and dungeons so far have had dead ends and seemingly irrelevant rooms on the way. This is the only thing that scares me a little bit away from the role, as in WoW people were quick to even kick you if you didn't take the perfect FOTM path before you could even get experience with it, and from pug to pug, they could rarely agree on paths either. I've been lucky so far in this game, as when I say I'm new, another player just takes point and shows the way and does the key things.
Doesn't make it harder for me at all to tank and I enjoy this, but I feel like I'm being carried a little by it, not stepping up enough. I don't know the dungeons in this game at all though yet and have repeated almost none of them, focusing mostly on MSQ and unlock quests for progression. So I appreciate others helping me navigate and learn to keep things in a pace that everyone is OK with. Gotten a lot of rep from the few I've done, so I think I've done OK. At least as a sprout.
In WoW there was this general expectation of having to know everything, always, even before having experienced it. I don't want to study youtube content for days just to dare entering a game. Another frustrating thing, probably the biggest, is that players could not even agree what the meta was for anything. And after building actual experience, I would not take bad advice blindly. I'm really done arguing such things... Pretty much why I'm trying this game now. I'm also attracted to not needing 3rd party addons for mechanics and effective ability usage.
Endgame and communication
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03-04-2023, 01:08 AMCoulihanEndgame and communication
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03-04-2023, 01:38 AMEnkidoh
Welcome to Eorzea!
I don't do endgame so I can't really comment on the communication thing, but I can definetely help you with the side question.
Yes, after ARR's original story dungeons started becoming very linear, as in, they are basically just now one long corridor with some bends or twists, so you have little worry about getting lost (this was to help simplify things and make dungeon runs quicker. It also greatly assisted the implementation of NPC party content in dungeons such as Grand Company Squadrons and it's successor the Trust system/Duty Support). So going forward you do not have to worry about getting lost in a dungeon, just be aware if you're doing dungeon runs through Duty Finder parties will generally wish you to go pretty fast - if you tell them you're new and still learning they may allow you slow down a bit though, so you shouldn't have trouble (it took me years to finally get the hang of running dungeons).
Either way, welcome once again! -
03-04-2023, 03:52 AMCoulihanThank you!Quote:
Originally Posted by Enkidoh
Perhaps boring to many, but sounds great to me. ;) Not that worried about pace, just not interested in studying pathing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Enkidoh
May end up not doing much endgame either, I guess I'm just thinking ahead just in case. -
03-04-2023, 04:57 AMBrightamethystMost content, especially the casual and leveling dungeons/trials are designed to be doable with minimal communication. Callouts can help but the game is pretty good about giving you enough info during the fight, even without addons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coulihan
That mostly stops after ARR. Once you get into the expansions (level 51+ content) dungeons become much more streamlined with very little way to get lost or go the wrong way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coulihan
That's often true of high tier endgame content (extreme/savage bosses) but for the most part it doesn't matter. Just say you're new at the start of the dungeon/trial and most people will happily slow down and explain things as needed. Also, unlike WoW, FFXIV has the sprout icon which tempers expectations right off the bat. From the start the people understand that you're new and might not know everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coulihan
This game doesn't really have a meta in the same way WoW does. Jobs are close enough and content is forgiving enough that unless you're trying to world first something no one really cares what you play. You're not going to get kicked out of parties because you dared to play that job, or anything like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coulihan
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03-04-2023, 06:17 AMCoulihan
Thx, sounds promising. :)
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03-04-2023, 06:24 PMLotteYanson
Communication in endgame is usually done in text form if you use party finder for it.
(Party finder is just a list of players looking for members where you can see what they look for and just join by clicking on it)
They then often just put down a macro like this:
https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...7eac520f38.png
there you can see positionals for ea role for the different mechanics.
people then post their roles:
MT = Main Tank
OT = Off Tank (Sometimes ST = Side Tank)
H1 = Healer 1
H2 = Healer 2
R1 = Ranged 1
R2 = Ranged 2
M1 = melee 1
M2 = Melee 2
In a static people often ask you for VC but any content in game can be solved without a static (sometimes just takes longer, sometimes the statics are slower)
Tank swaps usually come with a tankbuster.
While the boss casts the tankbuster skill the target is allready locked and you can provoke the boss over, gives you alot of time. ofc the behaviour is diff from boss to boss.
Some people also use the ingame macro feature to signalize a call when they provoke or shirk. -
03-04-2023, 08:49 PMCoulihan
Interesting, that's quite a macro.
Tankbusters seems somewhat easy to visually keep track of, was more worried about if debuff based ones if there are any. E.g. MT has 2-3 debuffs of something and I'll have to keep track of it, and how many times the tanks are expected to swap.
But I feel I'm getting ahead of myself a lot, should probably just enter endgame and see what happens gradually. -
03-04-2023, 11:55 PMFrizze
So an ideal tankswap would have the new target use Provoke to take over top threat(typically during the cast of the attack that necessitates the swap), followed by the old target using Shirk to gave some of their excess threat over and keep things smooth. Provoke might be available often enough for multiple swaps a minute, but Shirk has a 2 minute cooldown. Off the top of my head(admittedly, not the best standard) i cant think of any fights that have you swapping back and forth more frequently then you have Shirk available to help, and there are some fights where the swapping only happens a couple times.
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03-05-2023, 11:55 AMJeeqbitIt varies. Sometimes people do pugs as just party chat and sometimes they get in discord voice. Some of the people in discord voice don’t want to talk and just listen, so muting the mic is fine. Only one or two people really need to talk for callous anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Coulihan
Most fights can be done easily enough without voice, it just helps prevent wipes and time wasting a bit because someone can improvise when someone dies and save the pull by rearranging spots while fighting. They can also prepare you for a future mechanic without needing to stop to type.
Some regions have people who speak multiple languages such as EU and JP and they play together with auto-translate. So they can’t use voice as often as NA and rely on macros that pre-determine spots.
Tank swaps are easy. Make sure you can see the target bar and what it is casting. Memorize the cast name of the tankbuster. When it starts casting, press Provoke to take the boss from the other tank. That’s it.Quote:
I’m a warrior (only 50 so far) and not really looking forward to tank swaps
If the other tank is taking it from you, press mitigation such as Rampart. Then when the cast completes or near the end of the cast, shirk the other tank. That’s it.
Shirk macros help. You can make one that does /action “Shirk” <2>
You can rearrange your HUD so that your rotation, target bar, status effects and anything else you want to look at its at the bottom. The mechanics are just above the hotbar then, so you can see rotation and mechanics at the same time. Then look at the party list when you can spare a moment, to see if any party members are in trouble. If they are, you can react to it, such as apply a support buff to them.Quote:
mostly because I think it will be difficult to monitor debuffs on other tank as well as focus on mechanics and rotation.
The concerns you have about swapping apply more to ARR (level 50) fights where swaps happened without casts. Fights stopped being designed that way pretty quick as fights became less RNG and more scripted and clearly telegraphed. But if you try those fights it is quite rough, like playing a different game altogether.
Yes, dead ends stopped being a thing by level 70 and level 51-60 dungeons aren’t significant detours like 1-50 dungeons.Quote:
Also, will dungeons become more linear as I level?
I don’t think this is common but it probably happens occasionally as there are some impatient people in this game as well. When I began tanking I sometimes had people frustrated that I hadn’t completed the map and wasn’t doing large pulls when it was my first time. They would say rude things at the end of the dungeon before leaving or abandon the dungeon at random.Quote:
in WoW people were quick to even kick you if you didn't take the perfect FOTM path before you could even get experience with it
So it is possible they will kick, but it should be rare and they can’t if you don’t roll on loot ever. There isn’t much you can do if they do manage to kick. However, if they say something rude that makes you feel hurt in any way, you can report it and they usually get warned or banned.
This is more common in EU. I don’t see it normally in NA. But it doesn’t matter if you didn’t watch a guide for story content because story content is easy and clearly telegraphed to be obvious. If it is not obvious enough and you die, the others can rez you and won’t even care that you died. They probably expected you to die because people with a sprout usually die to certain mechanics their first time and it’s expected and not a big deal.Quote:
In WoW there was this general expectation of having to know everything, always, even before having experienced it.
Now if you do hard content in the future, all of which is optional side content, it will say in Party Finder to watch a guide usually. If they say that, you should do that before joining. If you want to go in blind, then join one that doesn’t mention that or that says “blind”. -
03-06-2023, 11:03 PMCoulihan
Thx Jeeqbit, appreciate it. Gonna have a look at hud and get that macro ready.