It is DUMB to put a two melee check at the last phase of an ultimate

If you don't have two melees in your static for Omega Ultimate. You just got f-ed. The last phased revealed a "two melee check" mech basically requires you to have two melees in your team to have a lot of extra damage. Please stop making dumbass mechnics like this to make ppl disband.

In general I really dislike harsh DPS checks, I understand why we should have them but at the end of the day making any too harsh or making it limiting on what jobs you pick makes it really frustrating for players who would have liked to play something else, I rather the fight mechs be difficult to perform in my personal opinion (obviously it already currently is).

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

In general I really dislike harsh DPS checks, I understand why we should have them but at the end of the day making any too harsh or making it limiting on what jobs you pick makes it really frustrating for players who would have liked to play something else, I rather the fight mechs be difficult to perform in my personal opinion (obviously it already currently is).

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The dps check pushes you not only to do the mechanics well but also to optimize your rotation in the best possible way but in general the rdps of the entire group. However we are talking about high level contents, in this case of very high level, and it is right that people are encouraged to do everything very well, from the mechanics to the optimization of the rdps. To get the maximum gratification possible. Personally I didn't follow TOP carefully, but the iron dps check that can be overcome with the extreme optimization of the party damage is one thing, it is another thing to have to have a certain comp in order to beat it. (In this case if you have 2 melee do they get a buff?). Or is it more of a note about the lack of jobs balance? Because this would be another problem and not really directly related to this ultimate.

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

In general I really dislike harsh DPS checks, I understand why we should have them but at the end of the day making any too harsh or making it limiting on what jobs you pick makes it really frustrating for players who would have liked to play something else, I rather the fight mechs be difficult to perform in my personal opinion (obviously it already currently is).

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No dps check = ignore mechanics and brute force your way through a fight.

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Originally Posted by Ggwppino

The dps check pushes you not only to do the mechanics well but also to optimize your rotation in the best possible way but in general the rdps of the entire group. However we are talking about high level contents, in this case of very high level, and it is right that people are encouraged to do everything very well, from the mechanics to the optimization of the rdps. To get the maximum gratification possible. Personally I didn't follow TOP carefully, but the iron dps check that can be overcome with the extreme optimization of the party damage is one thing, it is another thing to have to have a certain comp in order to beat it. (In this case if you have 2 melee do they get a buff?). Or is it more of a note about the lack of jobs balance? Because this would be another problem and not really directly related to this ultimate.

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No, in last phase everyone get a buff that basically refund another limitbreak if they use a lb3. A caster lb and a physrange lb is required for a meteor dps check and the other two lbs are basically free. So you have a huge advantage if you run two melees bc you get 3 melee lbs for free. It is about 700 rdps difference. If you only have 1 melee, then you have one less melee lb and need to deal way more total dps to clear.

I am not saying forcing 2 melee is bad. I don't want to go into that rabbit hole here.
I just find it dumb that this "2 melee check" mech is in the last fking phase. I know some teams gave up and have to replace one of their caster, even if they are already at Phase 5.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

No dps check = ignore mechanics and brute force your way through a fight.

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I didn't even say no dps checks I said "really harsh dps checks" They're obviously important to a degree.

Forcing comps due to DPS checks being really harsh isn't hard it's just "select class for better damage" how about making the punishments for failing the actual fight mechs harsher, I don't know make damage downs have a massive effect on DPS, last longer, Then people couldn't just "brute force" through everything, ignoring how a lot depends on Crit/Direct hit even more so under "burst high numbers meta" I just don't think super strict DPS checks leads to a fun or fair game.

beyond that I think it's very restrictive on Job design to only be about damage advantages that's why I've never been a fan of super harsh dps checks, this even is true about support classes like tanks and healers the only thing that matters is picking the ones with the best damage output, people complain that tanks/healers are becoming flavour reskins of one another but yet people wonder why? it's because complaints about one Job not fitting in well.

On topic, again I'm not a fan of "2 melees" it should always be 1 melee, 1 range, 1 caster & 1 Free, despite the adjustments towards casters/phys ranged recently they're not even close enough to being at melee, I'm pretty certain Phys ranged is only picked for the "1% buff" It's funny how behind RDM/BLM are despite how much more fights require way more effort and planning then any melee really needs to have.

Most mechanics in savage if you fail them outright either kill you or the entire party... Failing mechanics is already pretty harsh. Personally I'd like less of the raid wipe mechanics for the mistake of a single player.

The BLM comment I do wish we did more damage. The effort I have to make to play well compared to my SAM is night and day, so I'll give you that one.

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Originally Posted by Kachou_

So you have a huge advantage if you run two melees bc you get 3 melee lbs for free. It is about 700 rdps difference.

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Yes, in fact, the free lb3 can make a difference, with the addition that in general the melee does more damage and brings more damage than the casters or phys-ragend. If it's not clearable I totally agree with you, especially if you introduce me to this mechanic at a final stage.

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

I just don't think super strict DPS checks leads to a fun or fair game.

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Yes, but the high-level content must be 360°. The effort that a player must make must go from the mechanics, to their own rotation, to the full planning of when to use the buffs (including the pots) to increase the overall damage of the group not just their own. The DPS check is present precisely to push players to really collaborate and not to follow the rotation like a robot. You cannot expect a very high-level content to be as permissive like an extreme. A content that is not meant to be done by everyone, but by a slice of people who want to challenge the game, the game designers and themselves by collaborating with 7 other people.

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Originally Posted by Rithy255

I didn't even say no dps checks I said "really harsh dps checks" They're obviously important to a degree.

Forcing comps due to DPS checks being really harsh isn't hard it's just "select class for better damage" how about making the punishments for failing the actual fight mechs harsher, I don't know make damage downs have a massive effect on DPS, last longer, Then people couldn't just "brute force" through everything, ignoring how a lot depends on Crit/Direct hit even more so under "burst high numbers meta" I just don't think super strict DPS checks leads to a fun or fair game.

beyond that I think it's very restrictive on Job design to only be about damage advantages that's why I've never been a fan of super harsh dps checks, this even is true about support classes like tanks and healers the only thing that matters is picking the ones with the best damage output, people complain that tanks/healers are becoming flavour reskins of one another but yet people wonder why? it's because complaints about one Job not fitting in well.

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I agree. DPS checks serve a purpose but they are ultimately too restrictive. I'd rather mechanics either hit harder or you get Doom like in Bozja.

Some people will always meta slave. To each their own. Buy why does the rest have to play with less fun jobs?

All I see is either stuff get dumbed down since little Timmy has to make it through the MSQ and has anxiety even emoting to someone or we have people who wouldn't OCD heal even if their own team members if they were on the brink of dying. Neither approach is necessary wrong, even though I'm not a fan, but can we have some balance (pun intended) back? It's all so extreme.

Balance around the last sub-1% of DPS for some random comp while the classes themselves have much higher DPS variance between each other and pull-by-pull depending on crit. The question here is not whether DPS checks should exist - it is that they can be too harsh. Harsh enough to drive people away from playing with the classes or teammates they want. "Technically clearable" is a low bar for encounter design if "all classes are viable" is the end goal.