We're about halfway through EW now, and I wanna discuss a little about where to go with DNC from here. What kind of QoL improvements could we see, what tools should be cut/changed and what new tools could we add? I've been thinking about these questions more myself and I have some thoughts on things to address as well as ideas for solutions to these elements.
Leveling & Action Accessibility
It's not a major issue, but I find that DNC feels very dull whenever synched to 70 or earlier. The EW changes to Flourish also make level 80 content slower than it was during ShB. While not a major issue, it's also something that's relatively easy to resolve by shuffling certain tools around.
- Flourish -
Level 72> Level 50- Saber Dance -
Level 76> Level 54- Fan Dance IV -
Level 86> Level 72
Notes:
- For Flourish, since it only grants 2 Flourish GCDs instead of 4, I don't feel like it feels particularly strong. Bringing it down to level 50 would also feel like a stronger "capstone" at that level than Fan Dance II and En Avant.
- As for Saber Dance, I'd have its potency reduced to feel more in balance with HW content, but can be brought back up via trait at level 76. Both of these changes would do a lot at making earlier content feel more engaging for DNC.
- Lastly, bringing down Fan Dance IV into level 70 territory also helps DNC feel closer to how it felt in ShB during level 80 content.
Cuts and Changes
- Fan Dance - Becomes AoE, dealing 50% less damage to enemies nearby your target.
Fan Dance II- Removed- Fan Dance IV > Changes from a separate button to one that replaces Flourish when available.
- Closed Position - Can be used on yourself, increasing Esprit generation.
- Saber Dance > Increase potency to 500.
- Improvisation -
Channels a dance that provides a healing over time effect> Becomes: can be used in place of any Emboite, Entrechat, Jete, or Pirouette step during standard step or technical step. Costs 30 Esprit and deals damage to all nearby enemies with a potency of 150 for the first enemy, and 50% less for all remaining enemies.Improvised Finish> Removed- Tilana -
Used after Technical Step and applies the effects of Standard Step> Used after Standard Step and extends the duration of Stand Step's buffs by 10 seconds; additionally, inflicts Charm on all nearby enemies for 2 seconds (trash mobs only)- Starfall Dance > Changes from a separate button to one that replaces Devilment when available.
Notes:
- The Fan Dance and Fan Dance II part is not at all necessary, but this game doesn't really support the choice between single target and AoE scenarios really, so I'd really like to see the merging of a lot of actions that are a single target and AoE version of the same thing.
- The addition to Closed Position is just to make solo content as DNC a little less slow.
- For Saber Dance and Improvisation... Improv currently is fine, but also unnecessarily clunky at the same time. It's been this way for ShB as well, but this change would help it resolve a piece of clunk rather than create one. I run into situations often during raiding where I sometimes generate so much Esprit that I'll get filled up when refreshing Standard Step during burst windows. This would allow you to prevent overcapping of Esprit while you're unable to use Saber Dance during those moments. Currently, it's set as DPS neutral, but if we feel it's best for balance for it to be a slight loss and exists only to prevent overcapping, then we could do something like 120 potency instead. Saber Dance's potency is just to make this value very smooth as it'd otherwise be a potency of 144 to be Neutral with the current 480 potency.
- The Tilana change would coincide with an idea I have for new actions, but simply put, this would make Tilana something we get to see more frequently, make DNC's downtime between bursts feel a little more active, and the effect shift will make more sense as I describe a new action. The Charm effect is more for flavor as it doesn't work on any meaningful encounters, but can actually also give DNC a little more oomph in Criterion where the reduced team size otherwise takes away from DNC's performance in contrast to 8-man content, as well as any other Deep Dungeon/Eureka/Bozja type content we get in the future.
- The adjustment to Fan Dance IV and Starfall Dance are just for cleaning up the hotbar more. We can't use these buttons without activating Flourish or Devilment respectively anyway, nor can they be reactivated while Fan Dance IV or Starfall Dance are available. That said, I have no problems finding more ways to potentially trigger Fan Dance IV or Starfall Dance as well, justifying them as separate buttons.
New Action Ideas
- Tilana II - Used after Technical Step to deal damage to nearby enemies and ensures your next 3 attempts to generate a Fourfold Feather have 100% chance to succeed.
- Standard Waltz - Can be activated instead of Standard Finish when performing an alternate step combination displayed on the gauge when using Standard Step; Deals the same damage as Standard Finish and grants a different buff than Standard Finish's applied to self and all nearby allies. When HP is at or below 75%, triggers a 120 healing over time effect for 9 seconds; This buff lasts 15 seconds and if the timer expires, nothing happens and no HoT is gained. Standard Waltz still enables Tilana.
- Chocobo Jig [capstone] - Grants a 10 second combat sprint on a 3 minute cooldown to self and all nearby party members.
Notes:
- Tilana II would feel the same as Tilana currently does after Technical Step, but just makes your burst more consistent with feather generation.
- When using Standard Step, the idea is two combos will appear instead of one, the first is for the normal Standard Finish, and the other is for Standard Waltz. Since the Standard Finish buff lasts 60 seconds, and Standard Step's cooldown is 30 seconds, this gives you a window to opt for something different instead every other dance potentially. This also leads into the Tilana extention simply ensuring you don't get any awkward dropped buff time when going to perform your next Standard Step. It also moves the healing we lost from the Improvisation changes over here, but they're a bit weaker since they're usable more frequently.
- I'll admit, Chocobo Jig has the potential to be too much utility on DNC in contrast to BRD and MCH as well as potentially stepping on SCH's toes. That's part of the reason why I made it a 3 minute cooldown instead of 2, but I feel that it would be thematically appropriate and would be worth testing out the waters for.
Conclusion
Ultimately, whatever we see won't be something like this exactly, but there are a few key takeaways that I want to point out that I want to see from DNC in the next expansion:
First is making DNC's earlier level gameplay a bit more fun when playing synched.
Second is addressing the somewhat sticky situations you can get in during burst windows where you'll randomly generate so much Esprit, that you sometimes overcap during Standard Step, sometimes even after activating Standard Step and not having anything to counter that prior.
Third is playing around with something of an alternative to Standard Step's buff to take advantage of it's 60 second duration, which we currently aren't doing.
All other suggestions are just my own flavor takes and aren't necessary. That said, I'd like to see what others are thinking about and hoping for come 7.0.
7.0 DNC Ideacraft
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01-18-2023, 03:52 PMty_taurus7.0 DNC Ideacraft
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01-18-2023, 11:41 PMRaikai
I really like these ideas. Closed position on self is LONG overdue. DNC is always shafted when it comes to soloing. Heck, even that Stone, Sky, Sea is worthless since you can't really simulate a dance partner. Also I feel that Closed Position should be moved as early as the 20's, even if it would mean nerfing it and making a "Closed Position II" at higher levels with its actual power. New players gotta be familiarized with that mechanic asap.
The thing about Standard Waltz seems interesting as well. I could totally see them adding something like an alternate finisher - I just don't think that doing a "different sequence" would be intuitive enough, because it would always feel like a "mistake to avoid". But maybe they could find a way to display 2 different step sequences?
The improvisation rework makes the action really more engaging, because today the heal is puny and the shield is extremely situational (and also puny). An 'off way' to spend Esprit with less than 50 would make the gauge more dynamic and would add more complexity with planning, potentially assessing the issue of resource overcapping during TS. -
01-19-2023, 01:27 AMty_taurusWith Standard Waltz, yes, the idea is that both step combinations appear on your gauge. Let's say Standard Finish is going to be Green > Blue this time. You'd have that displayed, and I imagine be larger with additional UI details to communicate that this is the normal finisher, and then below that and a little smaller, you'd have that Yellow > Red will yield the alternative step. Whatever two steps aren't used for Standard Finish are what's used for Standard Waltz. I think this concept makes a lot of sense and makes the action a lot more dynamic regardless of whether its this Standard Waltz regen or something else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raikai
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01-24-2023, 02:29 AMTrue-to-Caesar
7.0 DNC changes :
- When swapping to Dancer, you fanta to a femroe so you can dance for Kyros.
There, only change you need.
On a more serious note as super casual DNC player, less RNG with procs. -
01-26-2023, 07:15 PMaiqa
I disagree. Original suggestions mostly serve to shift balance even more towards the 2 minute raid buff window, and make dancer depend even more heavily on being in a full team to improve its personal dps (due to existing technical step > sabre dance mechanics). Dancer does not need either. During that 2 minute window (or even during the smaller in-between buff), DNC is mechanically fine. The mechanical improvements should go towards the parts of gameplay that is not affected by the long cooldowns abilities. So for when you're just spamming 1,2,1,2, waiting and hoping something procs, that part needs improvements.
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01-28-2023, 04:45 AMty_taurusThe only changes I listed that work toward your burst are the Improvisation rework concept, which is more about fixing a resource generation issue rather than adding to the burst, and Tilana II. But a lot of what I listed is also about improving the solo experience, improving the synched experience, and adding stronger utility. Having a Tilana after every Standard Step as well would also add to the time between each burst. And I think there's certainly room to weave in other ways of generating Fan Dance IV or Starfall Dance perhaps. I'm just not really sure how I'd approach that at this time, because a lot of what I can think of would often serve the burst more than the downtime anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by aiqa
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01-31-2023, 04:55 PMty_taurus
So here's an idea that came to me on the topic of A: adding more components to gameplay between burst phases and B: mellowing out the RNG factor...
If Fan Dance IV gets moved down to level 72 from 86, then at level 86, a trait is learned. Every time you fail to generate a Fourfold Feather, you generate a new resource instead. Every 4 of that resource enables 1 additional use of Fan Dance IV. How does something like that sound?