2 minor issues with Warrior's Holmgang

There are 2 minor issues with Warrior's Holmgang that can happen when they have a target selected for Holmgang. Though there are alternatives to prevent them from happening such as a self-target Holmgang macro or having no enemy target selected when you press Holmgang.

The 1st issue is if you have an enemy target selected and are more than 6 yalms away from that enemy target. Holmgang cannot be activated normally while you both have that enemy target selected and are more than 6 yalms away from that target.

The 2nd issue is when you use Holmgang with an enemy target selected. If the enemy target that was selected for Holmgang dies, the effect of Holmgang ends before it is able to go through its full duration.

These are minor issues and there are workarounds for them. Regardless I see no reason why these issues shouldn't be fixed and it wouldn't hurt anyone if they were fixed.

Those two issue doesn't seems minor to me. Those are some big issue. I won't explain again because you did it well, but being unable to invuln because of a "target" isn't something that should happen.

Holmgang should work that way :

Launch Invuln no matter what

If Target is 6 Yalms or less, snare it,
If Target is more than 6 Yalms, Snare don't trigger
Holmgang don't vanish if the target dies before the effect ends.

One way for Square to fix this would be to have Holmgang provide two separate buffs, one for the invuln and the other for the snare, rather than what we have now where it's all under the same buff. That way, if the mob with the tether dies, you still have the invuln left over. As for the other issue of needing to be in range, yeah I think Tabris had it put best. Holmgang should trigger whenever it's pressed regardless of target distance, just that the tether should only apply if the target is in range.

They could probably remove the tether and hardly anyone would notice, at what point was the tether something that mattered?

Well, it used to be that the tether would draw in smaller enemies and bind them in place, and on larger enemies it just prevented either party from moving.

Essentially WARs would go Scorpion combo when using Holmgang. But in ShB they removed the limitation of needing a target and removed the draw in effect. So now it's just "Hey, you don't die as long as you're chain is out." But it was typically better to use while untargeted in mobs, which shouldn't even be necessary considering how much they could heal thanks to Nascent Flash, and then in boss fights that limitation never mattered.

The problems in PvE of Holmgang are so niche that's its not an issue and can be easily fixed with a macro.

/merror off
/ac "Holmgang" <t>
/ac "Holmgang" <me>
/micon "Holmgang"

That macro literally solves everything. If you needed to holmgang (outside of tank swaps), it was mostly because things were going badly anyways and its still better than HG where the effect is applied at the end of the animation so you can die popping HG at the wrong time only to be revived and HG is on cd. Holmgang is still the best ivuln in most situations and synergizes with WAR's self sustain. The draw in effect is just a meh bonus that underutilized with every expansion.

My issue is in PvP where the draw-in is physics based and not an instant snap. Anyone who plays WAR in pvp knows what I'm talking about. I just feel a disconnect in any game where momentum based physics exist alongside 0 character collision. Imo they need to make it a bind instead of a heavy if they don't want to fix the momentum based draw-in. The previous version of holmgang used to work like that prior to 6.1.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marxam

The problems in PvE of Holmgang are so niche that's its not an issue and can be easily fixed with a macro.

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The problem is more like this : If the problem exist, it should be repaired completely by the dev, not bypassed by macros.

Of course Macro can still do a wonderfull job, but that's not how they should be used. You don't use macro to solve a problem that the spell has natively.

People who don't use macro aren't aware of that, and can be surprised that HG doesn't activate because of the distance, or is finished in advance due to the death of a monster.

The problem won't be encountered in High-level content, because you are at melee range of the boss every time, but in other content, this can be an issue for more casual tanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TabrisOmbrelame

The problem is more like this : If the problem exist, it should be repaired completely by the dev, not bypassed by macros.

Of course Macro can still do a wonderfull job, but that's not how they should be used. You don't use macro to solve a problem that the spell has natively.

People who don't use macro aren't aware of that, and can be surprised that HG doesn't activate because of the distance, or is finished in advance due to the death of a monster.

The problem won't be encountered in High-level content, because you are at melee range of the boss every time, but in other content, this can be an issue for more casual tanks.

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But on the other hand, if the argument is solely that holmgang has a problem in content that as of this point, should not need it, then the problem is likely in the player than the ability.

Who needs to use invuln in a dungeon unless you're cheesing a specific pull? I will agree though that macros shouldn't be the solution to an in game function, but if it works it works. I personally haven't bothered with macros yet even though I should at least have one for my tanks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marxam

The problems in PvE of Holmgang are so niche that's its not an issue and can be easily fixed with a macro.

/merror off
/ac "Holmgang" <t>
/ac "Holmgang" <me>
/micon "Holmgang"

That macro literally solves everything. If you needed to holmgang (outside of tank swaps), it was mostly because things were going badly anyways and its still better than HG where the effect is applied at the end of the animation so you can die popping HG at the wrong time only to be revived and HG is on cd. Holmgang is still the best ivuln in most situations and synergizes with WAR's self sustain. The draw in effect is just a meh bonus that underutilized with every expansion.

My issue is in PvP where the draw-in is physics based and not an instant snap. Anyone who plays WAR in pvp knows what I'm talking about. I just feel a disconnect in any game where momentum based physics exist alongside 0 character collision. Imo they need to make it a bind instead of a heavy if they don't want to fix the momentum based draw-in. The previous version of holmgang used to work like that prior to 6.1.

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This macro doesn't actually solve both problems, it just solves the problem that your target is too far, but it will still bind you to any mob that you are targeting the moment you press the macro button, to also solve the issue of the mob dying and the effect being removed, you have to drop the `/ac "Holmgang" <t>` line from the macro.

As I see, there are four ways to approach this problem

1) Really think before use the skill about the situation that you are and what you are doing. You might want to target yourself before pressing the button depending on the context
2) Sacrificing completely the binding effect making a macro that always target yourself before casting the action
3) Having a macro that always targets yourself before casting and the regular skill button in the bar so you can decide when do you use it just for the sake of invuln or to also make use of the binding in a more "no brainer" fashion
4) SE removes the conditionals over the application of the invulnerability over the action

All of those will "solve" the issue and all of them have downsides, I am pretty sure that if number 4 gets implemented, some people will come to the forum to complain about Holmgang not binding and not having any indicator that it didn't bind. Probably, the cleanest solution would be to split it in two different skills but I doubt that is ever gonna happen

Quote:

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Originally Posted by damnwidget

This macro doesn't actually solve both problems, it just solves the problem that your target is too far, but it will still bind you to any mob that you are targeting the moment you press the macro button, to also solve the issue of the mob dying and the effect being removed, you have to drop the `/ac "Holmgang" <t>` line from the macro.

As I see, there are four ways to approach this problem

1) Really think before use the skill about the situation that you are and what you are doing. You might want to target yourself before pressing the button depending on the context
2) Sacrificing completely the binding effect making a macro that always target yourself before casting the action
3) Having a macro that always targets yourself before casting and the regular skill button in the bar so you can decide when do you use it just for the sake of invuln or to also make use of the binding in a more "no brainer" fashion
4) SE removes the conditionals over the application of the invulnerability over the action

All of those will "solve" the issue and all of them have downsides, I am pretty sure that if number 4 gets implemented, some people will come to the forum to complain about Holmgang not binding and not having any indicator that it didn't bind. Probably, the cleanest solution would be to split it in two different skills but I doubt that is ever gonna happen

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They split the effects of inner release. They can split the effects of holmgang if they really wanted to.

But, I'm still gonna stick to the idea that if people are complaining about their invuln skill, they probably aren't using it right.