I really hate GNB with 3 carts and Double Down taking 2 carts

GNB at 90 just feels so clunky to me, and the way you have to optimize it now makes it feel like you're playing the job wrong. It felt a lot more smooth and buttery at 80, but what do you think? Should No Mercy get a extended duration trait at 90? Should there only be 2 ammo carts? Should Double Down only take 1? What do you want to see with GNB?

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Originally Posted by Mithron

GNB at 90 just feels so clunky to me, and the way you have to optimize it now makes it feel like you're playing the job wrong. It felt a lot more smooth and buttery at 80, but what do you think? Should No Mercy get a extended duration trait at 90? Should there only be 2 ammo carts? Should Double Down only take 1? What do you want to see with GNB?

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GNB is completely fine as it is, GNB already does a significant amount of damage it does NOT need it's burst window extended. Three cartridge management is actually pretty brain dead, means less burst strikes in your unbuffed phase, and Double Down costing 2 cartridges is fair for the amount of damage it does in a single hit, it's a thing called balance that other tanks also have to deal with.
If you go into a No Mercy window without three cartridges that's on the player failing, not the job, being bad design.

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Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

GNB is completely fine as it is, GNB already does a significant amount of damage it does NOT need it's burst window extended. Three cartridge management is actually pretty brain dead, means less burst strikes in your unbuffed phase, and Double Down costing 2 cartridges is fair for the amount of damage it does in a single hit, it's a thing called balance that other tanks also have to deal with.
If you go into a No Mercy window without three cartridges that's on the player failing, not the job, being bad design.

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The class doing significant damage is not really a valid excuse for “double down basically ruined the no mercy window and destroyed GNB’s flow”, OP Is right and community sentiment agrees with him, the class does fill clunky and the burst is difficult to fit into the no mercy window and it basically removes GNB’s ability to use defensives in the burst window or makes it very difficult

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Originally Posted by Supersnow845

The class doing significant damage is not really a valid excuse for “double down basically ruined the no mercy window and destroyed GNB’s flow”, OP Is right and community sentiment agrees with him, the class does fill clunky and the burst is difficult to fit into the no mercy window and it basically removes GNB’s ability to use defensives in the burst window or makes it very difficult

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It is a valid excuse to deny a burst phase extension, if you read what I said. As for the flow, personally it's felt fine to me, only time it has been an issue, has been due to my own personal error playing it by overspending going into my burst, not because of the job's current design.
And it has and it hasn't, there is still weave slots available, more so than what DRK has available, and there is this simple thing that it's invaluable as a tank it's called planning ahead. Plan you mitigation ahead of tank busters and raid wides, suddenly you're issue with using mitigation becomes less of a problem. Even on PLD and WAR, if you don't plan ahead, you're gonna delay oGCD usage if you don't plan cooldowns properly.

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Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

It is a valid excuse to deny a burst phase extension, if you read what I said. As for the flow, personally it's felt fine to me, only time it has been an issue, has been due to my own personal error playing it by overspending going into my burst, not because of the job's current design.
And it has and it hasn't, there is still weave slots available, more so than what DRK has available, and there is this simple thing that it's invaluable as a tank it's called planning ahead. Plan you mitigation ahead of tank busters and raid wides, suddenly you're issue with using mitigation becomes less of a problem. Even on PLD and WAR, if you don't plan ahead, you're gonna delay oGCD usage if you don't plan cooldowns properly.

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I'mma have to disagree with you on the flow of the job with Double Down.

Taking into about its burst from Shb adding Burst Strike + Hypervelocity feels like an extension to to the Gnashing Fang Combo. Double Down does not. I don't mind having a 2 cartridge spender. I mind having an ability I don't believe flows and adds on to a kit that I liked in a previous expansion. Because unless I'm reading my rotation wrong (and I could be cause once I got this ability I avoided GNB like the plague in 90 content) Double Down does not come at the end of the Gnashing Fang combo like I believe it arguably SHOULD. It feels SO WRONG where it is.

As someone who hasn't been optimizing my gameplay, I can say that double down is a bit odd to use, but I've looked at a few recent guides now that 6.2 has altered bloodfest and it all seems rather sound.

What exactly about double down is the problem? Is it the fact it's a gcd, thus leaving time between the next weave? That was my main issue, but if it's used generally around the beginning, there should still be plenty of oGCDs to use after it to fill the space and continue gnashing fang.

I just don't like where it IS in the GNB rotation. It disrupts the flow. I would prefer it to be at the end where it feels it belongs and/or straight up removed. Don't like the animation of it either. My lv70 rotation feels so much smoother than my lv90 one.

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Originally Posted by ASkellington

I just don't like where it IS in the GNB rotation. It disrupts the flow. I would prefer it to be at the end where it feels it belongs and/or straight up removed. Don't like the animation of it either. My lv70 rotation feels so much smoother than my lv90 one.

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If you want Double Down to be the 4th hit of the cartridge combo you can just... use it as a 4th hit after the cartridge combo? There is literally nothing stopping you from doing that. It's not even a DPS loss for the vast majority of players. The only situation where it would be a loss are killtimes/phasing within the margin of a single GCD where using first Double Down two GCDs earlier can guarantee an extra use. But you know, your idea of rigid Double Down only makes this worse since you lose the flexibility and go from "I might get an extra use if I want to" to "I simply cannot get an extra use".

100% agree. I thought players were trippin about 90 GNB, but then I got it to 90 and well, I just refuse to play the job besides 70/80 content.

I really liked the class in 6.0 and 6.1, although I didn't get much opportunity to play it. In 5.x I found it a little too boring, and in 6.2 I feel the same way. I know they won't, but I'd like to see the 6.2 changes reverted and the class go back to 90s Bloodfest. It was really cool how the 90s offset forced you to actively manage your cartridges and approach every burst window ever-so-slightly differently. I think it's kind of soulless with 120s Bloodfest, but I wouldn't change anything about Double Down, No Mercy, or cartridge counts to compensate.