Expert Recipies 6.2, Heavy Rng Isnt Difficulty, It's Annoying

The idea of having expert recpies is good idea, and having relics tied to them back in shb was fun.

However, the way they decided to do the Otter Water Foutain stuff isnt. (Fun is subjective though, so if its fun for you as it is, thats good)

With the removal of Pliant and a thershold that's only 120 off 100%, you've pretty much got to pray to Byregot that your rapids and hasties dont mess up a lot, as you dont have the chance to save cp on manipulations and waste nots.

Surely theres got to be a better way to add difficulty to expert recipes, without having to rely heavily on rng abilities to even be able to do the craft?

I think it would be better if they kept pliant, but added negative versions of the condtions. Something like:

Bad: Decreases to quality are 1.5x less effective than normal

Displaced: Decreases action success by 25%

Delicate: Increases loss of durability by 50%

Unyeilding: Decreases to progress are 1.5x less effective than normal

Unfit: Next status granted by an action will last two fewer steps

Taut: Increases cp cost by 50%


Although there would still be rng, it feels like it wouldn't be as bad if they made the recpie doable with not having to rly on rng abilites as much, and instead of forcing players to thinking what to use and when.

On the bright side, at least they added a raid where we can beat Byregot up for the bad rng.

I just needed to vent, as im salty about barely having any success apart from 1 close attempt.(All my luck gets used up on Rapid Synths)

Personally, I don't find Hasty Touch to be so much of a problem. Hasty Touch has a 60% success rate, and I mostly do it on either Sturdy or Centered. So if it blow up on Sturdy, it doesn't hurt very much, and on Centered it usually succeeds.

I do echo the fact that it's very heavily relying on Rapid Syn though. The fact that we usually need Vene to buff our Rapid Syn, and we're forced to "spam" Rapid Syn when Vene is active, will sometimes result in a streak of failed actions. And such a streak of failed Rapids will kill the craft. Every time when Vene is active, I pray that Centered will appear. But even when we use Rapid on Centered, it can still fail sometimes, and all these are just terrible.

I think Centered should be buffed by another 5%. This will help with Hasty Touches, but more importantly, it's to help out with Rapid Syn, especially when it's under Vene buff.

Also, Malleable needs to slightly buff progress action success rate. Currently, it's pretty useless since we mostly just do Rapid Syn for the entire craft, and it's just a plain 50/50 chance of success on Malleable. Currently, I feel like over 50% of the Malleable condition is wasted on failed Rapid Syn.

These changes will increase the chances of Rapid Syn and Hasty Touch successes without breaking the game. And when this happens, people will learn to use Centered and Malleable properly... hence, a bit more skill-oriented rather than pure RNG-oriented.

On the good side, the fact that only a handful of crafters are capable of crafting these at an acceptable success rate, and the fact that we can now sell these items on the MB certainly warrant some credits.

While the MB is being flooded by the easy i610 and prices are plummeting each day due to the vicious undercutting war, some of us can comfortably sell these Water Otter Fountain components on the MB with handsome profits.

Many crafters had been complaining about how endgame crafter is no longer profitable due to things on the MB are too easy to make. Well, now SE gave us this Water Otter Fountain as an answer. If you're good enough, you can make good gil with it.

Do you use anything other than hasty at all? As im mainly using it to try to get to the 10k mark whilst hoping to have at least 75cp left to finish for gs and blessing. But i seem to end up with with 3-6 fails for hasty touch a time before it works once or twice.

Yeah "centred" seems to do barely anything to rapid synth, and its annoying when it does keep failing leaving you with a screwed up craft. Your buff ideas are pretty good ideas, and probably a lot better than dumping negative conditions into the fold.

Definietly, its pretty amazing that people can craft these recpies enough to make money off.

But it does suck when you aren't looking to make to sell but to just to unlock the permit, but are constantly getting screwed by the rng.

Yeah crafting is pretty easy now, and there doesnt feel like theres a step up at all from normal crafts to master crafts, just the same rotation but longer really.

I think my main annoyance comes from the idea that you have to do stressful content to unlock something on the relaxing content, i would of suggested a similar threshold system like there was with the relics like in shb as that way you dont get punished for bad rng as much, you just got to make more.

But your point about gil making makes sense, and would be ruined with that idea.

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Originally Posted by Aizawa_k

Do you use anything other than hasty at all? As im mainly using it to try to get to the 10k mark whilst hoping to have at least 75cp left to finish for gs and blessing. But i seem to end up with with 3-6 fails for hasty touch a time before it works once or twice.

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I use Hasties only when building up IQ stacks. When I'm at IQ8, and if Heart & Soul is available, I'll usually use it to "jump" to IQ10. If I am already at IQ9, then sometimes I'd just Obs+FocT to get to IQ10. At max IQ10, I'll transition into "touch combo" instead of Hasties to bait for Goods for quality leveraging.

I think the real shock to the system with this particular brand of expert recipes stems from the lack of difficulty with every other facet of crafting. HQs are assured as long as you follow a certain script. Equip yourself with certain gear. Meld that gear a certain way. HQ a few of the intermediate steps (alkahests for example). Use your crafting abilities in a certain order, ignoring crafting states with clever use of Tricks of the Trade, and you will have a guaranteed HQ item.

The Water Otter Fountain parts turns that all on its head. You can't just follow a script to assure success every time. You can't just ignore condition states like you are used to doing. You can't necessarily focus on all progress (minus 1 step) and then quality since all those Malleable conditions might as well be normal.

You have to not only learn to embrace these conditions and how best to use them but also learn to embrace failure. You will fail. And you will fail a lot when you first try.

I used food and draught for a few hours just running Trial Synthesis before I found a "formula" that was moderately successful. Of course, it is RNG dependent. There is only so much you can do against bad RNG. However, if the lack of assured success on a given synth is going to be your barrier, then this isn't for you. And not every facet of the game is for everybody.

RNG + excessive gear requirements are really the only way to add difficulty to something that is effectively a math puzzle. Even your idea of using negative conditions instead of good ones is a form of RNG that would end up equally frustrating if they occurred as often as the positive conditions we currently have.

The important thing to remember is that not achieving a 100% success rate is not failure. SE doesn't intend for us to have 100% success with them at this point.

Right now, Rapid Synth success seems to make or break the craft for me. I wish we were allowed to use mods to do things like track action success/failure because I definitely feel like my Rapid Synth success rate is closer to 30% than 50% but I don't want to have to manually go back through my chat log to count.

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Originally Posted by dspguy

I think the real shock to the system with this particular brand of expert recipes stems from the lack of difficulty with every other facet of crafting. HQs are assured as long as you follow a certain script. Equip yourself with certain gear. Meld that gear a certain way. HQ a few of the intermediate steps (alkahests for example). Use your crafting abilities in a certain order, ignoring crafting states with clever use of Tricks of the Trade, and you will have a guaranteed HQ item.

The Water Otter Fountain parts turns that all on its head. You can't just follow a script to assure success every time. You can't just ignore condition states like you are used to doing. You can't necessarily focus on all progress (minus 1 step) and then quality since all those Malleable conditions might as well be normal.

You have to not only learn to embrace these conditions and how best to use them but also learn to embrace failure. You will fail. And you will fail a lot when you first try.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

The important thing to remember is that not achieving a 100% success rate is not failure. SE doesn't intend for us to have 100% success with them at this point.

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I agree with what you said 100%! You can't be afraid to fail these crafts. It is bound to happen! I am botching so many right now that I lost count already. I don't even know if my success rate is really around 50% anymore, or is it more like 40 or 60%. Of course, we can't just blindly say "it is all RNG!" and just blindly mash button. That will make the success rate be as low as 0 to 5%. But even with all our tinkling "crafting senses", we are still failing in mad numbers.

It's almost as if SE gave us a "Savage Raid", where people are bound to wipe many times before succeeding. Here, we're bound to botch crafts. And as you said, we gotta embrace it. However, the difference is that, in Savage Raid, the more you train with mechanics, the better you get, and your success rate will increase. Here, most of us are already quite well-trained with the crafting mechanics, and yet our success rate still remains quite low due to RNG.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Right now, Rapid Synth success seems to make or break the craft for me. I wish we were allowed to use mods to do things like track action success/failure because I definitely feel like my Rapid Synth success rate is closer to 30% than 50% but I don't want to have to manually go back through my chat log to count.

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Yeah, same here. This is why I suggested to buff Centered condition by 5%, and also increase progress action success rate for Malleable. That won't change anything for people who blindly Rapid Syn spam. But it will be a game changer for people who make good use of conditions for Rapid Syn.

I'm getting soooooooooooooo many craft at >12500 but <13500,
I just need a place to RANT & SHOUT!!! This seems like a good place! ARGGGGGGGGGGGGG!!!!!! >_<
https://i.imgur.com/zyVxZXa.jpg

This is the worst I've had... missed by 8 quality... 8 quality!!!
https://i.imgur.com/69mbL60.jpg

I would upload a picture, but im not sure how to.

But, I've managed to make 2 sets of the lumber and bolts ^^

It was annoying all hell, but managed to make them in the end!



Just need to get the fsh glioaether now for the last 2 resin :D

Would anyone be willing to share their rotation?